Finance Committee on May 25th, 2010

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, we're very close. We have traditionally had some financial flexibility in the agency, but it is related to specific items that we administer on behalf of other jurisdictions. Really, those are fenced funds. From an operating budget perspective, our financial flexibility is very limited, once you account for all of those fenced funds.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

My last point is this. Last year the main estimates were $236 billion, supplementaries (A) were $59 billion, supplementaries (B) were $31 billion, supplementaries (C) were $6.5 billion, and we actually spent $309 billion. Now, the budget added a bunch of money, of course, but are we expecting from you guys a bunch of supplementaries? I have to tell you, I was a little bit perturbed at supplementaries (C), when we give you $4 billion a year and you came back for $10 million for computers.

In view of the finance minister's comments on restraint in the future, can we expect lower supplementaries from you guys in the coming days?

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, as regards the supplementary estimates, we have been scrubbing the numbers heavily over the last little while, and according to our discussions with our colleagues, in central agencies the same is being done. So we're very confident that what you'll see in our upcoming supplementary estimates will be the scrubbed-down bare-bones amounts that we will require.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to the last round with Mr. McKay.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

“Scrubbing the numbers” sounds a bit like what the Mafia might do to launder money.

Contributions in support of the charities regulation reform are listed as $3 million. What's this about? Why are you contributing $3 million to it? What are the parameters, and how is CRA involved in it?

[Brian McCauley]

That's, frankly, the only G and C program that exists at the agency. It has been in place for, I guess, five or six years.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I'm sorry--what is G and C?

[Brian McCauley]

Sorry, Mr. Chair. It's grants and contributions.

It's the only grants and contributions program that exists at the agency. When, about seven or eight years ago, the government decided to significantly reform the administration of charities, one of the things that was decided at the time was that it would be better to spend some money out in the voluntary sector to help them actually grow their competency and actually share best practices and improve compliance amongst themselves. So it is a series of grants that are given each year across the country to different charities and law associations to advance enforcement and understanding in the sector.

Information on those is available on our website. Rather than being used to hire more administrators in Ottawa, the funds are provided directly to associations and groups to create a network and to learn.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

So it's like a Facebook for lawyers and accountants.

[Brian McCauley]

No, actually, it has to be sponsored by and partnered with a charitable organization. I think almost all of them have had, as you can well imagine, people who work in that sector who are very committed to the sector, and we certainly think--

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Well, certainly they are committed, and sometimes it's even a good commitment.

Where are you on the “buy low, value high” art scheme? What is happening on that?

[Brian McCauley]

That's a separate tax avoidance--

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

It's in the charitable sector.

[Brian McCauley]

It is one of the schemes that is used to abuse charitable organizations, and there are others, and those are all being attacked by our compliance program branch, by audits.

There's a partnership between, as you can imagine, Chair...tackling the actual scheme and the individuals who are involved, and then our responsibility is also looking at charities who might--either inadvertently or advertently--get involved in the scheme.

As you may have noticed, there have been a number of revocations. I think we're into the double digits now, just in the past year, where we've been revoking charities where they have gotten involved in these schemes. So we're doing both.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Oh, really; and in terms of reallocation, how much money have you recovered?

[Brian McCauley]

I'll have to get back to you on that. I know it was in the tens, if not hundreds, of millions. We'll get you a number, because I know we do have one, in terms of what we have assessed.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

For the TFSA, there is roughly $80 million over four years. Those are your administrative costs. Do you have a number for forgone revenues over that same period of time? The question is really how much money the government has walked away from for this program.

[Filipe Dinis]

Mr. Chair, again, we're not in a position to speak to the forgone revenue. That's a question that would be more appropriate for our Finance fellows.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Speak to your colleagues at Finance, and get them to tell us. That would be nice.

[Filipe Dinis]

We'll bring the question back to them.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Okay, thank you.

Madam Hall Findlay.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Madam Hall Findlay, you have one minute.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks, John.

First off, given the number of departments we are questioning that have had a significant increase in their operating budgets from last year to this, I just want to say well done. You're obviously one of the few who are reducing.

I think it's important that there be efficiencies found before somebody says, “Oh, by the way, we're going to have a freeze and a review.” I say well done, that CRA has actually clearly been....

I mean, there are a lot of departments we're facing that are asking for significant increases. That really troubles me. I think it troubles a lot of people, especially when then you say we're going to have a freeze afterwards. They're padding only in time to possibly have a freeze.

So credit where it's due. We don't say that enough. I just wanted to put that out there.

I have a quick question on capital. I'm not sure if I missed it, or if somebody else asked this.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Keep it very brief.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Why do you have a line item now for capital, and what is it?