Finance Committee on May 25th, 2010

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Okay.

For the main estimates on Finance, I guess the overall budgets for the Auditor General, Canadian International Trade Tribunal, FINTRAC, Office of the Superintendent, they've all gone up, and all I would assume for different reasons.

But isn't there supposed to be some reining in of expenses from this government? Instead we're seeing the Auditor General go from $82 million to $85 million. Am I reading these correctly? There's $9.5 billion to $12 billion; almost $48 billion to $50 billion? They've all increased. I'm not sure from your opening comments--though I may have missed it--why that's happening.

[Sherry Harrison]

My opening comments were with respect to the departmental summary. We could have officials from the other organizations speak to their increases.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

But somebody in Finance should be questioning it. Shouldn't you be looking at this? You are Finance, after all. Shouldn't you be responsible for trying to rein in some of these expenses? It just seems to be getting out of control.

[Paul Rochon]

The Auditor General's budget, as I understand it, is determined by a procedure through the public accounts committee. The Auditor General reports through the Minister of Finance for the purposes of tabling, but we don't have direct input over her budget.

As the 2010 budget set out, the government is asking all agencies to abide by and follow the expenditure restraint measures that were set out in the budget. But in this case the decision has been taken to leave those matters up to the Auditor General's office.

Jeremy, do you want to refer to the increase in FINTRAC?

[Jeremy Rudin, Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

Sure.

The increase in FINTRAC is, I believe, related to the additional responsibilities that FINTRAC has been given over the course of the—

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I just don't like these sentences that have “I believe”, “I'm not sure”, and “we're not aware of”. I'm not sure, then, what you guys came here for. You can't just say “I believe”. I mean, these are general questions.

If the other departments are going to have the same discipline you guys are going to have, we're never going to rein in expenses, that's for sure. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. If I use a percentage that's a little bit out of control, that's....

I can understand $3 billion in extra funding for transfer payments, but I have a hard time understanding $2.4 billion for tribunals and $1.8 billion for FINTRAC.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

Just make a very brief response, please.

[Jeremy Rudin]

I would be happy to have the officials from FINTRAC, who are here, give you the details of their reason for the increase in their expenditures, if you wish.

Is that okay with you, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Yes.

Ms. Baxter, please.

[Margaret Baxter, Chief Financial Officer, Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada]

The increase for FINTRAC is related to two items. One is a re-profile of funds from prior years into this fiscal year, to set up our disaster recovery site. The other item is a $200,000 increase that had been pre-programmed for the national anti-drug strategy.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

You may want to follow that up in the second round.

Monsieur Paillé, s'il vous plaît, pour sept minutes.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I hope that there are individuals here who will be able to answer my questions, because I, too, am a bit shocked with the kind of responses we are getting.

There are two things, in particular, within the department’s portfolio that I am especially interested in: the establishment of a Canadian securities regulation regime and a Canadian regulatory authority, which represents $150 million, and the Canadian Securities Regulator Transition Office.

I would like some detailed information on those two items. Does it include salaries? Will permanent employees be hired? Will there be a union? New equipment? New capital property? Has office space been rented? Does it have any assets?

Can you give me those details in 30 seconds?

[Jeremy Rudin]

The Transition Office is a new federal agency. The expenditures cover salaries, office space, equipment—mostly computers—and so forth. There are also contracts with consultants who provide assistance.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Could you give us a quick breakdown of those expenditures, in other words, the $150 million or $161 million?

[Jeremy Rudin]

The amount allocated to the Transition Office this fiscal year is $11 million. The Transition Office will submit its first annual report in the next few months. The report will include a detailed breakdown of everything.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

My job, as a parliamentarian, is to authorize spending. I do not want to learn about expenditures after the fact. I want to know about them beforehand.

[Jeremy Rudin]

They are all statutory expenditures in the Transition Office's budget, which were approved under the Budget Implementation Act, 2009.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Is that also the case for the $150 million?

[Jeremy Rudin]

The $150 million was also approved under the Budget Implementation Act, 2009. The department will use that money to make direct payments to the provinces and territories, pursuant to the establishment of a Canadian securities regulation regime. The maximum amount is $150 million.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

If the Supreme Court of Canada were to ever rule that what the Canadian government was doing was unconstitutional, what would happen to the $161 million? What would happen to the people, the computers, the office space, and all the equipment, which would have been purchased unnecessarily, illegally?

[Jeremy Rudin]

The Transition Office has a three-year mandate. As planned, the office will cease to exist at a given point, so there will be a plan to shut it down, even if the initiative proves to be very successful. As I said, the $150 million will allow the minister to sign agreements with the provinces and territories.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

If I understand correctly, the Supreme Court could tell the federal government that it does not have the right to do it. But it is doing it again anyway. So it is easier to get a pardon than to ask for permission.

[Jeremy Rudin]

I would not say that. The government did not set up a regulatory commission but an office tasked with overseeing the transition. Right now, the office has absolutely no mandate to oversee or regulate the securities market. Its mandate is to carry out the federal government's efforts towards achieving that goal, for example, by advising the minister on how to draft federal securities legislation.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

When will that legislation be introduced?

[Jeremy Rudin]

In October, the Minister of Justice said that the government planned to publish a piece of draft legislation in the spring and refer it to the Supreme Court of Canada.