Evidence of meeting #32 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cost.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karen McBride  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Bureau for International Education
Wayne Morsky  Chairman of the Board, Canadian Construction Association
Michael Conway  Chief Executive and National President, Financial Executives International Canada
Donald Johnson  Senior Advisor, BMO Capital Markets
Dennis Howlett  Coordinator, Make Poverty History
Peter Effer  Vice-President, Taxation, Shoppers Drug Mart, Financial Executives International Canada
Laurel Rothman  Steering Committee Member and National Coordinator, Make Poverty History
Bill Ferreira  Director, Government Relations and Public Affairs, Canadian Construction Association
Sharon Baxter  Executive Director, Canadian Hospice Palliative Care Association
Michael Sangster  Vice-President, Federal Government Relations, TELUS, Canadian Hospice Palliative Care Association
Susan Eng  Vice-President, Canadian Association of Retired Persons
Gillian Barnes  President, Canadian Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists
James M. Laws  Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council
Margo Ladouceur  Regulatory Affairs Manager, Canadian Meat Council
Sean Whittaker  Vice-President, Policy, Canadian Wind Energy Association
Ondina Love  Executive Director, Canadian Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists

11:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Hospice Palliative Care Association

Sharon Baxter

We actually presented a number of times to the parliamentary committee on palliative and compassionate care, and we're actually quite pleased that I think there's a consistency of messaging across the country, possibly because we gave the four recommendations to everybody who would listen to us and said to be consistent and whatnot.

I realize that the recommendations in the brief are slightly different from the blueprint. You're referring to the $16 million in research dollars and the capacity-building fund. We made the same recommendations last year, so I'll speak to them very briefly.

There was a $16.5 million research fund in palliative and end-of-life care that lapsed about two years ago. There are no concerted research dollars for palliative and end-of-life care at this point in time. There is research being done, but there is certainly not a research fund. We hit the tip of the iceberg in some of those research areas. It's less about the biomedical and more about patient-centred care. We need to know more about that, so we recommended that again this year.

The other piece was on establishing an end-of-life care capacity-building fund of $20 million annually for a period of five years. This is the dialogue we're talking about that engages health care providers in the planning community and industry, legal groups, and governments at various levels in how we're going to figure this one out. Part of it is about health care, but more and more it's about socio-economic issues, right? It's about poverty. It's about housing. It's about nutrition. Twenty percent of people living in long-term care facilities in Canada are actually there because they can't afford an apartment. They actually don't need long-term care. We need to really start to look at that, because we're going to need those beds, and we need to do the right thing by Canadians. I think we need to look at how well we're going to do this and have a dialogue.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Block.

We'll go to Mr. Pacetti, please.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing.

I guess I'll start with the Canadian Meat Council. I don't think you've had any questions, so I can pretty well ask you anything.

11:40 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

We were in Vancouver, and I spoke to the B.C. Cattlemen's Association, and they're saying that there's additional cost for the cattlemen because of the specified risk material from the cattle. There's an extra cost. You're asking for a similar type of money. I think it's your first recommendation regarding meat product inspection. Isn't that already done at the lower level, at the cattle producers' end, when the specified risk material is taken out? Am I talking about the same thing?

11:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council

James M. Laws

No, they are two separate things. There actually is a federal program right now called the abattoir competiveness program that offsets the cost of the specified risk materials. We're grateful for that, and we've asked for an extension of that program until we can put in place more permanent solutions.

On a separate issue--

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

For how long would you like an extension?

11:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council

James M. Laws

At least another year.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Okay. Sorry, go ahead.

11:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council

James M. Laws

The federal inspection fees are charged to all federally registered meat establishments regardless of what they're processing. In addition to that, we don't believe we should be paying inspection fees.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

So the inspection fees would be whether it would be cattle or whether it would be beef, pork—

11:45 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council

James M. Laws

Exactly, yes. That's on top of the costs--

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

It's on top of the costs. So even though the cattle producers are being vigilant and are giving you good product, you're still subject to an inspection that you have to pay for?

11:45 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Okay.

On the third item, you're asking for a tax credit based on eligible expenses for safer food, and I'm going to stop there because now you have me worried. Does that mean that if you don't get this money, the food is not safe?

11:45 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council

James M. Laws

No, it's not that. It's that there are lots of improvements that need to be made everywhere, as new technologies are implemented, as new lab testing equipment becomes available for faster tests, for instance. There was a study done by Agriculture Canada last year that looked at the profits of the food sector, in general, in Canada, not just the meat sector. They concluded that from the years 1999 to 2008, the profits from the industry were consistently lower than other manufacturing industries and the industry's debt-to-equity ratio was consistently higher than total manufacturing.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

So it wouldn't be in your interest to invest in these new machineries so that you do become more profitable and forget about the government?

11:45 a.m.

Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council

James M. Laws

Exactly, but it does cost money to invest and to become more profitable; however, it's not always that you can pass the cost of some of these things down that result in safer food to Canadians. That's the challenge.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

Okay, thank you.

Ms. Barnes, I was a former school commissioner, and we had problems all the time with getting enough speech pathologists and people who were qualified to do this type of work for the school board. What was happening was the parents who had the money were able to pay privately for the speech pathologist, but even if the school board wanted to pay a little bit more, they could not compete with the private sector.

I was with a French board and we ended up hiring people from Belgium. They would come here and work for a couple of months and then not be available, because it was much more lucrative for them to do this on a part-time basis.

Is that still going on? Is this not a provincial jurisdiction?

11:45 a.m.

President, Canadian Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists

Gillian Barnes

Thank you for the question. It's a very interesting one, and I think it's one that perhaps we still see going on across the country. Actually, we're just done a national project in regard to current wait times across the country, in terms of varying diagnostic categories, and you're absolutely right about the resources in terms of the qualified speech-language pathologists and audiologists across Canada.

Let's talk about children. There are more children requiring services than there are specialized pathologists available to provide those. We do have—

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

It's a two-pronged problem. Some of the school boards don't even put any money aside or don't put enough money aside. They don't take this seriously, and when they do, they can't find the proper personnel to hire.

11:45 a.m.

President, Canadian Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists

Gillian Barnes

Absolutely. We can tie this into our early intervention and early identification as well. What we're finding there is the cascading effect. If we can provide these children with early identification and early intervention, perhaps it would place less of a burden upon the school programs. So it would really tie back into our request for early—

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC

So how would you get them prior to their entering school? Through a day care? We have that in Quebec, but the rest of Canada doesn't.

11:45 a.m.

President, Canadian Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists

Gillian Barnes

Absolutely, through a pediatrician, through parental referral, through public education in terms of developmental milestones....

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Pacetti.

Mr. Cannan, please.