Finance Committee on Oct. 18th, 2010

[Elizabeth McDonald]

It is interesting that you ask. This morning at 9 o'clock I got on my BlackBerry—I've been at meetings all day—work that's been done by Ernst & Young on our behalf on all the solar technologies and what the multiplier effect is per megawatt of investment and per megawatt thermal investment as well.

I'd like to be able to read the whole thing, but I don't know if you have ever read Excel off a BlackBerry....

I'd be very happy to review that, and review it with Dr. Whiting, and then we'll send a letter to the committee with that information, which will be extracted from our strategic plans.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

If you could just submit it to the committee, it would be most welcome, I'm sure.

[Elizabeth McDonald]

Absolutely, and it's preferable to have that translated because it will take a bit of time.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You can send it to me, as the chair, or to the clerk.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

It's safe to say, though, without having seen the data, there is a substantive multiplier.

[Elizabeth McDonald]

Yes. I started to panic and I couldn't remember the number. On electricity, it is 14 jobs per megawatt, but it's a bit different because it's mathematically more complicated on the thermal side. Ernst & Young has done significant work, taking European numbers and other numbers and putting them into the Canadian experiment, rather than just using somebody else's.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'll look into that. I am sorry I'm short on time, but I think it's really important to many to see that data and to see that argument.

I want to turn to Ms. Conway. I just want to understand fully. I'm thinking of Nicholas Stern; the cost of doing business as usual is going to be more costly. I'm thinking about what is about to happen to us.

Just to get this straight, if there is no funding in the upcoming budget, you will have to close your doors.

[Dawn Conway]

Absolutely, yes.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You were very clear in your submission that there is no alternative funding in your case. Is that correct?

[Dawn Conway]

That's right. No other agency funds the partnerships we support, the intersectoral partnerships. NSERC funds basic research. It funds some strategic initiatives. It doesn't fund this kind of partnership. In fact, its strategic priorities specifically exclude climate areas.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Yes. I think NSERC does great work, particularly on the research side. I assume the government is well aware of your dilemma.

[Dawn Conway]

Yes, I believe it is. We're currently in the process of submitting a brief to the Minister of the Environment, at his request, detailing the situation. But the reality is that our last funding came in 2003 and we have lived off the principal and interest. We've stretched $110 million effectively into $127 million, through use of the interest and through our careful management. It has covered $117 million in grants and all of our admin costs.

You see that we're lean and mean. Two of our six staff are here, so a third of our staff are in the room with you.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I hear you.

[Dawn Conway]

I have to say that the scientific community has written.... We've presented to this committee before. We will be releasing next month a book of some of the achievements of the work we have supported, including achievements on air quality and Arctic conditions that have come out of PEARL.

So yes, we—

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

And I think most providers of energy will be interested to see the work you're doing on adaptation, particularly around hydro, because that will change the way work is done and the need for adaptation.

I want to follow up, if I may, with Ms. Donnelly. I have a very quick question, Chair.

Are you aware of any G-7 country that actually does not have a national housing strategy?

I can answer actually—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

—because we don't have much time.

[Mary-Lou Donnelly]

Well, Canada.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

There are none.

I was just very appreciative of the fact that you included housing as well as child care in the package around education, because I guess you understand what has been elusive for both federal governments...that we need to have housing coupled with child care to make sure we actually end child poverty—which we haven't been able to do.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Pacetti, please.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses for appearing.

I have a couple of quick questions. The first question is for the Canadian Solar Industries people. Ms. McDonald, I think it was you who stated that solar is the most efficient type of energy. Would it be comparable to wind, or what would be the difference? Please be quick, just so I can understand the difference and how you evaluate that.

[Dr. Phil Whiting]

I actually made that point. Solar thermal produces energy at about 7¢ a kilowatt hour, as I said before. Wind is double that, or two to two and a half times that cost today.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

What would be the difference in cost? Solar comes from the outdoors and so does wind. So what would be—

[Dr. Phil Whiting]

You have to look at what it costs to build a facility, how much energy is produced, and the lifetime of the facility, and then you can figure out from that, over those many years, how many dollars were spent to produce how many kilowatt hours of energy.

So roughly speaking, wind energy is about double or so the cost per kilowatt hour of energy produced by solar thermal—and photovoltaics are double that again.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Just for my purposes, are there studies on that, or is it just something your association has come up with?