Evidence of meeting #36 for Finance in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON
Okay.
Let me move on to Campus Stores with regard to parallel imports under the Copyright Act.
If there is an amendment to the Copyright Act to permit parallel imports, have you done any work to consider what the impact would be on the viability of book importers with that additional competition?
Manager, Queen's University Bookstore, Campus Stores Canada
Thank you.
First, we're not looking for a change to the act. We want the tariff reduced as part of the regs. We want those zeroed out. It's efficient and effective for us to respect the exclusive distribution agreements. I wouldn't see that changing in any way. Rather, it's that the price of the book is simply dropped between 10% and 15%.
Liberal
Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON
Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
My time is basically up.
For the students, needs-based grants. It's the first time I've ever heard that from a student organization. We have to have a conversation about that. We don't have the time now, but I want to encourage you.
Finally, for Mr. Jock, education, education, education. I'm with you 100%. Do you want to comment briefly?
Chief Executive Officer, Assembly of First Nations
That has been a priority for both the national chief and the existing minister. Certainly, what we've heard from the Prime Minister is that this is a priority. What we're looking for is how do we action that. This would be something that could be benefited by a multi-party approach. It's something that's in a common interest. It's really something for action in terms of future economic benefit for all kinds of reasons. We're looking for the action. The national chief is quite excited and able to contribute to that dialogue and that debate.
Conservative
Bloc
Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC
Mr. Chair, my question is for the Canadian Federation of Students.
First of all, I would like to know why your Association only has four universities and one CEGEP from Quebec, and no French-speaking association, whether it be from Université du Québec, Université de Montréal, HEC, École Polytechnique de Montréal or CEGEPs.
Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students
I thank the member for the question.
Very briefly, it's part of the founding principle of the student movement in Canada to respect the right of students in Quebec to self-organize. There are student unions that have been formed in the province that we certainly work in partnership with. It was only a recent development actually that students in Quebec had expressed an interest in joining the national student movement. We still do work with La Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec as well as the CEGEP organization, La Fédération étudiante collégiale du Québec.
Bloc
Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC
It is interesting to see that our students are preparing for the future.
My second question relates to your recommendation to increase the funding of Statistics Canada by $10 million for collecting and analyzing data on post-secondary education.
You do not mince words, especially on page 4 of your document where you refer to the OECD, and we all know that the parliamentary secretary of the Minister of Finance often refers to the OECD. You state that Canada was unable to provide data on 57 of 96 indicators used to compare countries on the basis of post-secondary education. This means that Canada's mark would only be 40% which, in any university, does not give you a degree. You also state that current facts do not provide us with good statistics.
I would like to know what you think of the decision of the government to cut the long-form census. Do you believe that this means that collecting good data that cannot be challenged—and we know how important that is for students and researchers—is not necessarily a priority for this government?
Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students
While certainly we were part of the over 13,000 organizations that opposed the decision to get rid of the mandatory long-form census, in addition to this, we saw what seemed to be a casting aside of the willingness to collect data, which is interesting for the university sector. I mean it's somewhat ironic that for our research institutions we would get out of the business of doing research on them. Nevertheless, I think it's part of an interesting development that the importance of maintaining data collection is not seen as being important going forward.
So the idea of continuing to collect data that's been paid for over the course of several decades and continuing to measure that against future data...we've essentially thrown money out the window by not continuing to collect that same data going forward and not understanding the effects of the billions of dollars that are spent on the post-secondary education sector. That effect on the economy is problematic. That's why we've stood shoulder to shoulder with the other organizations that oppose the long-form census...and continue to see concern with the effective gathering of statistics in the post-secondary education sector as well.
Bloc
Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC
At page 3 of your document, you mention that the total amount of student loans owing to the federal government is more than $13.5 billion. At page 4, in the first column, you ask that each dollar currently loaned by the federal government—the total being $13.5 billion—should be converted to a non-repayable grant. Then, speaking of the Canada Revenue Agency, you state that there is $1.8 billion in foregone tax revenue resulting from the education tax credits, to which should be added close to $800 million spent on the CESG and RRSPs, for a total of $2.6 billion. Let us make it $3 billion today. So, if we add $3 billion to $13 billion, we get a grand total of $16 billion, which is quite a significant amount, is it not?
Chairperson, Canadian Federation of Students
I would agree with you there. Looking at these numbers too, the $13.5 billion in accumulated...that's net of repayment. Actually what we saw was a regulatory change to the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act right before the beginning of the school year, because the amount being lent out by the Canada student loans program was going to exceed for the first time the legal limit of $15 billion on the books. Something has to give at some point when we have $15 billion out there in federal student debt and all that's really out there right now to accommodate for that is the tax credits and saving schemes that aren't getting any kind of uptake because people's capacity to save is being reduced. We see similar things happening with pensions and people not having the capacity to save.
I agree with you completely. This is a substantial amount of money. Something needs to be done. It all needs to be addressed in the form of non-repayable assistance.
Bloc
Daniel Paillé Bloc Hochelaga, QC
Thank you.
I have a final question on books, for the representative of Campus Stores Canada. You say that the price of imported books would drop by 10% to 15%. I also read somewhere that this is a $30 million problem, more or less. Is that correct? Does this 10% or 15% share only represent $30 million?
Conservative
Manager, Queen's University Bookstore, Campus Stores Canada
Yes, that's accurate. It's our best estimate. We don't have as much information or data collected as we would like, but that's an accurate estimate.
Conservative
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I want to thank our guests for coming this afternoon. I will be sharing my time with Mr. Hiebert, so at the three-minute mark could you tell me to be quiet? Thank you.
This is for the Genome Prairie guys. Who determines the allocation of funds? Is it Genome Canada, or does it go directly to the individual--I think it's six--organizations across the country? You can just remind me of that.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Genome Prairie
Genome Canada receives the funding from Industry Canada and Genome Canada puts the call out for proposals across the country.
October 20th, 2010 / 4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
So shouldn't Genome Canada be here asking for the money? Are we going to see six of you guys over this time?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Genome Prairie
Well, there are six regional centres, and our request was really not in this case on funding for Genome Canada but for activities that relate to a commercialization of operations within our region.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Okay.
You have in your recommendation the complete refundability of SR and ED credits and the addition of giving it to not-for-profits. I know we have a committee looking at these issues. We've spent $7 billion on innovation and research, and so on, and we're looking at doing...SR and ED is right, IRAP is right. But in theory, aren't SR and ED credits an incentive to those companies who are innovating and doing research to reduce their tax burden so they can take that money and further invest it in research? Are not-for-profits...maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean by not-for-profit. Are they paying taxes anyway?
Chief Financial Officer, Genome Prairie
Not-for-profits don't pay taxes. It would be additional incentive--
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
So instead of calling it SR and ED, do you want a direct donation to that organization for development and research, basically?
Chief Financial Officer, Genome Prairie
It's to help with the commercialization.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I need to be clear on this if we're going to be arguing with our Finance folks on what people want to do and so on. Really, at the end of the day, if it's fully refundable, that means if you don't make any money, it doesn't matter. You still qualify for that, and it ends up being an investment, let's put it that way, of cash in the system.
I'm going to move on to my friends from the cement organization. I'm 100% behind you on recommendation 1...firmly opposed to that bill that supports one type of building product over another, particularly in the area where I'm from, where steel happens to be very important.
On your second point, I want to make sure I understand what you're asking for. You want the accelerated capital cost allowance to be permanent. Is that correct? It's not a temporary measure, which it has been for stimulus purposes.
Steve Morrissey Director, Cement Association of Canada
Yes, we've asked for that. We know that collectively all the manufacturers have been advocating for a longer timeframe for this program to exist. Originally, this program was a temporary measure, and we understand that.
