Finance Committee on Oct. 26th, 2010

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

The example you gave of the housing cooperative that had to sell off one-third of its units in order to finance the remaining two-thirds, and in so doing forced out one-third of the households, is something that is experienced everywhere. That is not fiction; that is a widespread fact. On this side, we do not think that the expiry of the CMHC agreements can be justified by a lack of money. When the government is able to waste $1 billion in three days, it should make sense to invest $2 billion a year to renovate CMHC housing units.

Let us talk about the CMHC surplus. We have introduced a bill to, if I may say so, “provincialize” that surplus. We would hope that the surplus amounts go to those closest to the ground. The CMHC appears to be concerned by the situation, but is there any way to tell the government that March 31 will be upon us very shortly? Have you used specific pressure tactics in that regard?

[Jody Ciufo]

We will soon be having a meeting with Ms. Finley. We will also be talking to our members and MPs telling them that March 31 is around the corner. Our work now is to raise departmental awareness.

[Daniel Paillé, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

With the 600,000 units that you represent, you have significant powers of conviction.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Massimo Pacetti]

Mr. Menzies, you have seven minutes.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for appearing here today.

I have a quick question for Ms. Kean: did you bring enough socks for all the committee members?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Stacia Kean]

You can have a raffle or something.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Yes, but they are large enough to fit someone like Massimo?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Your feet, Massimo, just suggesting....

I am absolutely supportive of this community development. In my estimation, there's nothing that strengthens a community better than the community investing in itself.

I like where you started with your examples. Perhaps you could give us some other examples in your area or in some of the rest of your network where there have been positive developments.

[Stacia Kean]

Sure. Another one in Thunder Bay is that the organization I work for, PARO, has the PARO Presents gift store. We have the products of 80 local women, most of them older and aboriginal women, who have started their businesses through some of our micro finance and business development programs. They volunteer in the store, so they get training on customer service, marketing, and using a point of sale machine. Then, through that opportunity, they are able to either start their own storefront operation or network and grow their businesses.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

When you say micro financing, what amounts...? To me, micro financing is like what I saw in Kabul, at $6 or $8. We must be talking different dollar figures here.

[Stacia Kean]

Yes. It's $500 to $5,000.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Okay. Good. I'm glad to see that it works as well here as it does in other countries.

[Stacia Kean]

Yes.

I have another great example. We were recently in Winnipeg for the Winnipeg community economic development gathering and took a tour of the city to see some of their really neat CED projects.

One was BUILD, a program for ex-gang members. BUILD is a construction company that has a partnership with the province to retrofit the toilets and electricity in all of the social housing. They have an operating budget of about $1 million. They have a graduation rate of over 90%, with people either graduating into employment or continuing with their certification in training. As a result of the work they're doing, they will be saving the province over $80 million in the next 10 years in energy costs.

To show some scale of community enterprises, there's the example I gave of the True North Co-op. It's a smaller enterprise. Then you can look at more urban areas. I think that part of the point we're making with CED is the scalability, and the opportunity for scalability that's there with the right kinds of financial tools to support that kind of growth.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

That's right. That's what I find in my local communities as well.

Ms. Watts, is there a “REAL Men” group out there somewhere?

[Diane Watts]

Well, there's a need for a REAL Men group, but there isn't one.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I guess I can't help but support what you're suggesting: that the funding for day care should go to the parents. Of course, we recognize that as a government.

I have just a comment, if you will. We're trying to address some of the issues you raise about single-parent families and the universal child care benefit. There was a negative tax implication. We changed that in budget 2010. What other things would you suggest we could do taxation-wise to support single-parent families?

[Diane Watts]

Well, it's a very complex issue. We've come to the point where there's almost a necessity for two incomes for Canadians to live the type of life they want and to provide for their children. That makes it automatically difficult for the single-income family, whether there are two parents, or whether there's a single parent through widowhood, or choice, or whatever. That automatically kicks in when we get to the point in salary inflation and increased taxation....

I think the more we try to provide fairness to the single-income family, the more we'll create a society where perhaps the single-income parent won't be so disadvantaged. That's a very broad look at the picture, but this is why the single-income parent is having so much difficulty: because we're in the two-income system, and not always by choice. I think we've found many women really don't want to be. They want to be caring for their families at home, caring for the young children--and the teenagers often need attention.

There are many social activities where it's very difficult for the two-income family to provide the type of community and social surroundings for their children that previous generations were able to provide when there was a choice to live on one income and you didn't pay such a heavy price if you wanted to do so.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Thank you.

For the Green Budget Coalition, Barry, you and I have worked on a number of conservation projects and we've had some pretty good announcements in my part of the world, Doc Seaman's being a large part of it. I haven't balanced it off against some of the other ridings, but we must have some of the largest conservation reserve projects in my riding in southwestern Alberta, with some, of course, being the most beautiful parts of Canada. I'm sure you would agree with that.

[Barry Turner]

Is that a comment, sir, or a question?

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Well, it's a loaded question, if you will.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Just very quickly.... I do want to get on to the water issue, but we do have some great projects.

Mr. Szabo brought up a good point about water. Who is looking after this? Who's electrifying that fence that's keeping these carp out of the Great Lakes? Who should we be going to in Montreal to tell them to stop dumping raw sewage into the St. Lawrence river in such huge, massive volumes? And to other cities, west coast and east coast...? Who should be doing that, if not you guys?

[Barry Turner]

Or you?