Finance Committee on Oct. 26th, 2010

[Michael Toye]

In terms of legislative changes federally, we've just adopted a new non-profit act, and provinces have as well. In many jurisdictions, for example, there are no multi-stakeholder cooperatives, which is by far the most popular legal structure for social enterprises to be created. We have that in Quebec, and it has really unleashed a flourishing of entrepreneurship and new commercial enterprises in every jurisdiction where that's been created.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Is it to make it easier for the delivery of the community services?

[Michael Toye]

Exactly: they facilitate collective entrepreneurship.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I'm sure we can talk about this at length.

I'd like to get to the Green Budget Coalition. I want to commend them for finally making it a little bit simpler, easier and more understandable. But when I look at the numbers, I see that they're still huge. One of the items—sewers, I think—is billions of dollars over a short period of time. Is this ever going to get rectified? Is the government going to be able to come up with $6 billion over five years?

[Andrew Van Iterson]

The numbers have changed a little bit from what we submitted to you in the longer document. We've had extensive discussions with Infrastructure Canada. There is $1 billion in money funded by this government that is still available and could be put into waste water infrastructure.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

It could be, but is it going to be?

[Andrew Van Iterson]

We are asking you to give strong directive to the government that it--

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

No, no. I understand, but why select waste water? Even if it does, where's the other $5 billion going to come from?

[Andrew Van Iterson]

This is the long term. It's expected to be a 30-year effort to implement this. This is as much about the environment as it is about the human health issue.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I agree in terms of the principle. I'm talking about the money issue. How do we get the government to commit to it when governments have more of a short-term vision than a long-term vision?

[Andrew Van Iterson]

Maybe if we could give them all nice warm socks--

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[A voice]

Very good.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Yes, so before my time is up, Mr. Weis, regarding these green bonds, can you just explain that to me? Is there anybody issuing the green bonds? Does your institute issue them? How does it work?

[Tim Weis]

It would run effectively in the same way--

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

It “would run”? So that means it's not running?

[Tim Weis]

It doesn't run right now, not yet, no.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So this is a conceptual thing?

[Tim Weis]

You can look at Europe, where there are similar examples, and there's also a web page called GreenBonds.ca.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Can I issue a $6 billion bond to clean up or invest in waste water infrastructure across Canada?

[Tim Weis]

There's no reason you couldn't.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Who would do that? Who can we push to do this?

[Tim Weis]

It would be the federal government that would set it up in the same way as Canada Savings Bonds are administered. You would have to set up criteria in terms of who could apply for those sets of programs, who could ultimately invest.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So you would want the government to set it up? It wouldn't be a non-profit organization or...? Could we set it up as a PPP or...?

[Tim Weis]

The government has to backstop it. The government backstopping is really what makes it function. Someone with a credit rating like the federal government's needs to set it up and set the rules for it.