Evidence of meeting #120 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cra.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mark Perlman  Acting Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Richard Case  Acting Deputy Assistant Commissioner and Agency Comptroller, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Brian McCauley  Assistant Commissioner, Legislative Policy and Regulatory Affairs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Gail Beck  Member, Board of Directors, Canadian Medical Association
Karen Cohen  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Psychological Association
Carmela Hutchison  President, DisAbled Women's Network of Canada
Akiva Medjuck  President, National Benefit Authority

10:40 a.m.

NDP

Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I would just like to follow up on Ms. McLeod's comments. As we have the perfect right to do, we gave notice of a motion on this same topic that probably took about three and a half minutes to introduce. We are taking an additional 15 minutes or so to discuss a motion put forth by Ms. Glover on the same topic. So if she believes that my three minutes undermined the work of the committee, I'd like to hear her comments about the motion we're discussing right now.

On the substance of the motion, we have serious concerns about this. The motion put forward by Ms. Glover proposes that other committees be asked to study parts of this omnibus bill, Bill C-60, but it does not allow them to have the opportunity to amend the bill or to vote on those proposed amendments. In essence, they're calling witnesses in a bit of a void, whereas the finance committee will subsequently be asked to vote on clauses of the bill without actually having the benefit of the testimony that has been heard before all of these other committees.

We went through a very similar process with Bill C-45, and frankly, Mr. Chair, it was a sham. The committees did not have adequate time to be able to study the bill in detail. Some were not able to study it at all. Some were able to call officials and that was it. There were no recommendations that came forward from any of the committees that were looking at it, and then this committee was asked to debate and vote on this bill in totality, on a clause-by-clause basis, without having heard the testimony from all of these witnesses.

I also want to address the section of the motion, section (c), that asks members, any member, to submit their amendments to the committee, including members who have no caucuses, who are not normally represented on this committee. Without them being here and without other members having the opportunity to move these amendments, I question the validity of that process. It's not our normal procedure. Normally you have to be present and in your place to move an amendment. So I seek your judgment on this, Mr. Chair, in terms of this procedure, which is certainly unprecedented in my experience here.

Now, I understand the goal—I believe I understand the goal—which is to dissuade this process from being in the House of Commons and having extended voting in the House of Commons with all of the members. I guess what it could come down to is that the six members of the Conservative Party at the finance committee would therefore have the power to make decisions, rather than the 308 members in the House of Commons. That seems to me to undermine our normal procedure.

Those are some of the concerns we have about this motion, Mr. Chair.

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you.

I'll go to Mr. Brison, and then I have Ms. Gallant.

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

We have concerns about this motion. Effectively, it imposes a de facto time allocation, which we believe is inconsistent with parliamentary engagement, or the traditions of that. Perhaps the government would support a constructive amendment, and that is to add to (a) the following:

(vi) the Standing Committee on International Trade, clauses 62 to 103;

(vii) the Standing Committee on Transport Infrastructure and Communities, clauses 200 to 212 and clause 233; and

(viii) the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, clauses 213 to 224.

We suspect the government may find this agreeable.

The other amendment I would propose would be to delete (d) through (g), which I suspect the government may find less agreeable.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

You're proposing those as amendments to the motion.

Ms. Gallant, do you have comments on that?

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

I'd ask you to call the question, please.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

I can't stop the debate, unfortunately.

I'll go to Ms. Glover, please.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

The government is not agreeable to the amendments put forward by Mr. Brison.

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

A fellow can dream.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Do you want to have a vote on the amendments?

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Yes.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

All those in favour of Mr. Brison's amendment then?

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

There are two.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Let's do the two sets then.

All those in favour of the amendment to (a), to add (vi), (vii), and (viii)?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The second amendment, Mr. Brison, is to eliminate (e), (f), and (g).

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

It's (d) through (g).

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay, (d) through (g): (d), (e), (f), and (g).

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

On the motion itself, all those in favour?

10:45 a.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I actually have a question before the vote.

I just want to confirm that Ms. Gallant has been subbed.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Yes.

10:45 a.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Is that the case?

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Yes.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Subcommittee, we will meet down the hall in about 15 minutes.

Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.