Finance Committee on Feb. 9th, 2012

[Gregory Thomas]

Yes.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

But that doesn't necessarily answer my question.

[Gregory Thomas]

It's a question of motivation. If you want to do some tax planning, some work with charitable donations, and the person with the money, let's say an elderly entrepreneur who's run a mill or a small business in a community, if that person's eyes glaze over and he goes “Oh, my head's going to explode”—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Okay, but I'm from Fort McMurray and I have a lot of rich people who are young. They have a lot of money, a lot of income. I'm interested in ways to get more money from them and encourage more giving, because they want to give more.

[Gregory Thomas]

Make it understandable. Make it understandable on its face, so in a brief discussion—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

It's simple, and I agree with you 100%.

[Gregory Thomas]

—you can put it across to them. I think the principle is if you give the money to charity, that money won't be taxed. If you achieve that, then you make it much easier.

[Malcolm Burrows]

I don't believe it's a tax issue. I think it's a clarity issue. We don't communicate what the benefits are. Look at the T1 form—it only shows the federal, not the provincial.

But frankly, it's the Manitoba solution. Social cohesion, community development—these are grassroots things. It's the volunteerism. Those things translate into giving. It's not tax alone; it's about building healthier communities.

[Craig Alexander]

The national survey of giving, volunteering, and participating revealed that 45% of top givers said they would actually give more if there were a more generous tax incentive.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

How do we do that? Is there a progressive tax?

[Craig Alexander]

I'm not an expert on the tax incentive side of it. The stretch will only work up to a limited amount because it needs to be capped at $10,000 through your lifetime. At the end of the day, it will help to encourage some additional donations.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Adam Aptowitzer]

If you look at some of those numbers and break them down, I think you'll probably see that the largest amount came from the donation of shares. Maybe flow-through shares in Fort McMurray might be a big one. That was a special type of combining a double incentive that would encourage people to donate massive amounts of money. When the government first eliminated tax on donation of public securities, a philanthropist in Toronto stood up and donated $50 million as an example to everybody else of what can be done. That's the way to go, unlocking that kind of value. It already exists. Unfortunately, the exemption was repealed, but it already exists in terms of telling them, and getting the money out of them. That's an educational component.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Jean.

I want to thank all of you for being with us here today.

Thank you very much for your presentations and your answers to our questions.

There's one thing further for Mr. Aptowitzer. If there's anything further you can submit to the committee on your definition of charity, we will look at this very interesting idea. If there's anything further on that you can submit, we would appreciate it.

If there is anything further from any of you, please submit it to the clerk. We will ensure everyone gets it.

Colleagues, just a brief note. You have a draft schedule. I have attempted to plot out our meetings as far as we can. It's a draft, so if there's something on here that needs to be changed, please let me know. We do have a Cisco meeting on Monday morning at 9:30. Please let the clerk know whether you will be able to attend.

Okay, thank you so much.

The meeting is adjourned.