Finance Committee on March 6th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I call to order the 46th meeting of the Standing Committee on Finance.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, February 1, 2012, we are doing clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-25, an act relating to pooled registered pension plans and making related amendments to other acts.

We have a two-hour session here for consideration of this bill clause-by-clause. You should all have the clauses in front of you. Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1 is postponed. Therefore, I shall move to clause 2.

My understanding is there is not an amendment until clause 21. Perhaps for simplicity, and members can just stop me at any time, I will ask if there is any discussion with respect to clauses 2 to 20. We will deal with the clauses for which I have no amendments.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

One moment, please, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

Mr. Giguère.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I'd like some clarification on clause 6.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

Are there any issues with clauses 2, 3, 4, 5 that members wish to raise? No?

(Clauses 2 to 5 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 6--Multilateral agreement)

We go to clause 6.

Monsieur Giguère.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Clause 6(2) covers the multilateral agreement. I'd like some clarification on the federal labour law. Does this mean that the provincial labour law will prevail over the federal labour law? Labour laws generally give the union a right, an obligation for representation.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Can we have the officials who can best respond to that come to the table?

I'll go to Mr. Jean in the interim.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

My understanding is that clause 6 is simply to authorize the minister to enter into those multilateral agreements. It doesn't deal with the issue of jurisdiction. In fact, it also requires a minister to table any multilateral agreements. I don't understand why it would be of issue here, because it simply authorizes him to do so.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Jean's question is very interesting. Under the Canada Labour Code and the Quebec Labour Code, the union has a representation obligation. At both the federal and the provincial level, the union therefore has a legal obligation to represent its members. But in this case, an essential element of compensation, specifically the pension plan, does not come under the union's jurisdiction.

I'd like to know how the labour code sets out the obligation of the union to represent its members in this type of situation. Will the union have to work in parallel with the superintendent of financial institutions to defend its members? If there is a transfer of authority to the province, are we also transferring the authority set out in the Canada Labour Code to the province?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I just don't see why it would apply in these circumstances. The clause simply authorizes the minister to enter into an agreement with the other provinces or territories. It doesn't supersede any jurisdictional issue, any labour code, or anything else. So that would be between the unions and the provincial government that would apply, and they would have to abide by those rules, regulations, and laws in setting up any agreement with the federal government. I don't see what it has to do with it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

My question on this, Monsieur Giguère, is why would this not be a question for the province when the province is bringing forward legislation to deal with the issue?

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Exactly.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I'm not sure why it's being raised here.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

If you tell me that your answer is final, I'm willing to accept it. If you tell me that, when the provinces discuss this, it will be under provincial jurisdiction and that it will be up to them to give us an answer, I'll accept that, as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

That is my understanding.

I have Ms. Glover and Mr. Jean, but if there are officials in the room who wish to comment on this—

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

That's what I'm going to ask for.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

—you are free to come forward at any time to offer a comment.

Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I'd like to ask the officials a question.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

If you can, just for our information, would you introduce yourselves, please?

[Carol Taraschuk, Senior Counsel, Legal Services for the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions, Department of Justice]

I'm Carol Taraschuk. I'm with the legal services with the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Welcome back to the committee.

[Carol Taraschuk]

Thank you.

There's a similar provision in the Pension Benefits Standards Act. What it does is recognize that there are different jurisdictions respecting pension plans, and there will be respecting PRPPs.

There will be provincial legislation, we hope, that will address situations where a PRPP is established by an employer who is subject to provincial labour laws. This act governs PRPPs established by employers who are subject to federal labour laws.

This will enable jurisdictions to coordinate or try to aim at harmonious legislation and requirements that will apply to PRPPs across the country. So it's recognizing federal cooperation.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Monsieur Giguère, does that answer your question?

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay.

I should point out that we have officials here from the Department of Finance, the Department of Justice, and the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions. If any of you wish to comment on any questions that are being raised by members, please do come forward to the table. I should have mentioned that at the outset.

We'll deal with clause 6, then.

(Clause 6 agreed to on division)