Evidence of meeting #60 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ppp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Welcome, Mr. Oliver. If you have any opening remarks on this division, we'd certainly welcome them.
May 17th, 2012 / 12:10 p.m.
Chief Superintendent Joe Oliver Director General, Border Integrity, Federal and International Operations, Department of Public Safety
I have no opening remarks, but I look forward to questions, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
At this point, we'll start members' questions avec monsieur Caron, s'il vous plaît.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
That measure was not announced in the March 29 budget, was it?
12:10 p.m.
C/Supt Joe Oliver
No. It's my understanding there were no funding requirements attached to the budget.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
That brings me to my next question.
For such operations to be included in this section, what would the costs be and how would they be broken down? Are any additional costs expected?
12:10 p.m.
Director, Border Law Enforcement Strategies Division, Public Safety Canada
There is no funding request in the legislation. What's intended here is legislation that would frame and govern Shiprider operations in the future.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
And that would fall within the RCMP's jurisdiction.
12:10 p.m.
Director, Border Law Enforcement Strategies Division, Public Safety Canada
That is correct.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
If there aren't any budget consequences, do you know why a provision like this would be included in the budget implementation bill?
12:10 p.m.
Director, Border Law Enforcement Strategies Division, Public Safety Canada
That's a decision of the government, and we cannot speak to that.
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NDP
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Thank you very much for joining us today.
During the Senate study on Bill S-13, some of the senators wanted to know the cost of this legislative measure. They were told that the RCMP would be able to absorb the cost of the requirements of the implementation, but we've already had the Auditor General warn that the RCMP can't absorb further costs for additional requirements without compromising operations. Given that concern, can you give us some specific figures of what it will cost to implement these measures? I think we all share the concern that the RCMP's resources are being stretched further, given the constraints they're already under.
12:10 p.m.
C/Supt Joe Oliver
I think it's important to recognize that today the RCMP conducts on-water operations in shared waters with the United States. Because law enforcement in Canada and the U.S. respect jurisdiction, our ability to pursue criminals across the border is limited by the fact that we are empowered under Canadian law and not U.S. law. As a consequence, there have been instances when suspect vessels we have tried to intercept have fled into U.S. territory and evaded apprehension.
Even with our existing resources today, this bill will give us the legislative authority to jointly crew vessels with specially trained officers from Canada and the U.S., so that the border will not be a barrier to current cross-border law enforcement operations. Even in the absence of dedicated funding for this type of activity, we currently conduct operations, and those operations would be enhanced by this increased operational flexibility. We will be operating with our American counterparts across the border. In fact, we would leverage each other's finite resources to bring better effect to cross-border crime-fighting, both in Canada and the U.S.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
To what extent would your activities be related to drug interdiction? Is that a significant part of what you're doing?
12:15 p.m.
C/Supt Joe Oliver
Yes. On an annual basis, the integrated border enforcement teams conduct a Canada and United States threat assessment. What we identified was that cross-border crime is a two-way problem. Contraband flows in both directions. For example, marijuana and ecstasy flow from Canada to the United States, cocaine from the U.S. into Canada. People and currency are smuggled in both directions. Contraband cigarettes and firearms come from the U.S. to Canada.
In the deployment of our operations, we look at these threat assessments to identify where are the greatest threats, and where we would deploy our resources to bring the greatest effect to our operations. There are high-risk areas along the Canada-U.S. border that would certainly benefit from a tool such as this legislative authority. It would be especially helpful in areas where the border is only a short distance between the two nations and where smugglers can quickly cross the border and deliver contraband from one side to the other.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Is there a significant delta of resources between the U.S. Coast Guard and the RCMP?
12:15 p.m.
C/Supt Joe Oliver
The U.S. Coast Guard is a maritime law enforcement entity. It has a multi-mission that also includes search and rescue. They have a very significant presence. The RCMP has a much smaller presence. But the beauty of the construct we've developed here is that it's completely reciprocal and the commissioner and the commandant decide how these operations will be deployed. Essentially, when we deploy these operations, there are equal numbers of Canadian and U.S. vessels, which gives us the operational flexibility to operate back and forth across the border.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
That would allay any fears of our effectively outsourcing the monitoring to a better-resourced agency in the U.S. You're saying that it's fairly symmetrical.
12:15 p.m.
C/Supt Joe Oliver
When we deploy these operations, they are based on threat and need. When we do deploy them, there is an equal number of officers and they are cross-designated. The U.S. cannot decide on its own to cross-designate officers to operate in Canada. It's under the authority of the commissioner to grant U.S. officers that cross-designation authority, as it is set out in the framework agreement and in the legislation.