Evidence of meeting #60 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ppp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
If my understanding is correct, PPP Canada's objective is to examine or promote certain PPP projects. Have you looked into the project regarding the Champlain Bridge, which is in my Brossard—La Prairie riding?
Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
Minister Lebel is in charge of the Champlain Bridge file. PPP Canada will provide advice to Transport Canada on that project to the extent to which the corporation is authorized to advise federal departments.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
However, Minister Lebel has already decided that the project will be a PPP. Have you been consulted about that? Have you provided any recommendations? The studies commissioned by the government and the Department of Transport indicate that the cost of PPPs is higher than it would be if the project was paid for using public funds. Total costs to taxpayers are higher if a PPP is used. I was wondering whether you have looked into that.
Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
I want to begin by clarifying that, for the Department of Finance, the type of procurement that will be used for the Champlain Bridge has not been clearly decided yet. In the context of project development, we will consider the most appropriate types of project management or procurement. In that context, PPP Canada may be asked to provide advice.
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
This is news to me. You are saying that the Champlain Bridge project will not necessarily be a PPP.
Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
An assessment will certainly be carried out to determine whether a PPP will provide the best results in terms of value for the money.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
If my understanding is correct, even though the minister has announced that the project will be a PPP, you have not been consulted and have not looked into the benefits or disadvantages of a PPP.
Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
The government has clearly indicated that it wanted to encourage the use of PPP Canada if it was determined that was the most feasible and effective way to proceed. In that context, the issue is on the table, and the Department of Finance is not responsible for it. The Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities is developing the project in collaboration with PPP Canada, if necessary.
NDP
Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
I cannot speak on Transport Canada's behalf. It appears that discussions are being held between the crown corporation and the Department of Transport, but I cannot speak to the content of those discussions.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Okay.
The minister has also said that there would be no bridge without a toll. Have you looked into that? Will the toll necessarily be related to the PPP? You may tell me that this has to do with the Department of Transport, but do you see a connection between having a toll and having a PPP at all costs? Are the two related?
Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
The government has clearly indicated its intention to impose a toll on the Champlain Bridge. We are looking into this issue. As you know, the Champlain Bridge is a huge project. Not all decisions have been made yet, but those are issues we are studying.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Were you given the mandate to examine the toll issue and its implementation, to look into how it will be applied and to determine what that money will be used for?
Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
No, that has not been done by the Department of Finance because the Minister of Transport is in charge of developing the proposal and the project.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Will issues like the study on the toll's impact on funding eventually be submitted to PPP Canada?
Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
The PPP Canada representatives would be in a better position to answer this specific question. While deciding whether a project should be carried out as a PPP, the organization takes into account the fact that the project may generate revenue.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
Although Transport Canada has not given you a clear mandate, I would like to know whether you have consulted pre-feasibility studies on the Champlain Bridge. Those studies assess the implications of funding or carrying out this project as a PPP or doing so using public funds. Have you consulted the Delcan report, among others?
Chief, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
Yes. We are aware of the report.
Senior Economist, Sectoral Policy Analysis, Transport and Corporate Analysis, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
Yes, we have definitely looked at this report. It recommended that the Champlain Bridge be replaced and considered various options. That was an actual pre-feasibility study. The report shows that building a new bridge is justified. The tunnel option was rejected because it was considered to be too expensive.
NDP
Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC
The report produced by Consortium BCDE compares various options. That is actually the report that was published afterwards.
