Evidence of meeting #60 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ppp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
In the past, there have been business and labour, so at this point, that will no longer be the case, then?
Director General, Policy, Quality and Appeals Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
In order to be recommended for appointment to the employment insurance section of the general division, which is the first level of appeal, the current commissioner for workers and the commissioner for employers, the employment insurance commissioners, as well as the chair of the social security tribunal—these three members together—will form a committee that will make recommendations to the minister in terms of appointments to the employment insurance section. So there is still a component whereby the stakeholders of the program will have an opportunity to recommend appointees.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
I guess in the past there was kind of a sense of balance between business and labour that clearly won't be there anymore, so we're going to have two different perspectives in it....
What do you think the change is? What impact on regional access do you think you'd have with this? I mean, if you're taking the numbers of people down so dramatically, it sounds to me like it has to have some impact. Have you looked into that or considered it?
Director General, Policy, Quality and Appeals Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Right now, the decision of where the actual tribunal panels will be located has not been determined. It's a Governor in Council decision.
In terms of regional access, part of the design of the social security tribunal and part of the savings expected to be realized through the proposal are related to the move away from a lot of paper-based hearings. So we're hoping to increase the occasion for individuals to have their hearings through video conferencing, as is possible, according to the region they reside in. So we're hoping there won't be a regional impact.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Has my time gone already? Gee whiz.
Well, my next question I can't even ask, because I know it's too long.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay.
I just want to clarify a couple of things. I very much like the idea in terms of combining. You mentioned April 1, 2013. That's when the new tribunal will be up and operating, correct? I think probably the only concern one would have on this is the transition period between them coming together. Can you just address that?
Exactly how are you going to do the transition to ensure that it is seamless, so that for people who have something currently in the process when that switchover happens, it will be seamless for them?
Director General, Policy, Quality and Appeals Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
The new tribunal will open its doors in April 2013, as I mentioned. The existing tribunals will continue to hear and consider cases that are in their system at that time to ensure that it's seamless for clients.
Director General, Policy, Quality and Appeals Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
They'll phase out. So new appeals coming into the systems effective April 1, 2013, will go into the social security tribunal system, whereas those already in the system will continue in the existing system.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Okay. That's the clarification I wanted.
I'll go to Mr. Casey now, please.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
I just have one question. It relates to the right of appeal beyond the appeal division of the newly formed panel. Is it limited to judicial review or is it broader than that?
Director General, Policy, Quality and Appeals Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
It's limited to judicial review by the Federal Court.
Liberal
Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE
All right, so there's no appeal on the merits.
Thank you. That's all I have.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I appreciate the chance to get back in.
One of the concerns I have, having seen or at least spoken to people we've had as referees before, is the importance of having that face-to-face contact. I know video conferencing supplies a method, but the face-to-face, where things are drawn out in a different fashion, give a better understanding: do you believe the person or do you not believe the person when you're face to face? I'm really concerned about that. And I'm concerned about the changes to regional access.
Beyond that, you have a situation where, if there are so few people and it's more concentrated, for lack of a better term—understanding the region and understanding the diversity of our country—this has the potential to create problems. We hear the minister talking about changes to EI and accessing EI, and I won't get into the controversy over the things that have been said on that, but based on the changes that appear to be before us on EI, I think there will be an increase in appeals. They've said they're going to restrict transfers to the areas people live in, and if there's no work in that area, what's going to happen? If a person refuses to go, what's the potential for appeal? I think this is problematic. With so few adjudicators, do you have a set of parameters you think will be used? Are you aware of any parameters of expertise and background that will be used?
Director General, Policy, Quality and Appeals Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
We're in the process of developing the job descriptions for the competencies, experience, and skill sets that the members would be required to have to compete for these positions. They will require expertise in the area in which they will be hearing appeals, and they will also, unlike now, do this full time. So any expertise on regional differences they need to hone will be acquired as they are hearing the cases on a full-time basis.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
As I indicated before, the business and labour sides had a lot of sway in the activities. When you're setting these criteria, are you including business and labour advisors? The commissioners are in place. Are they going to be assisting?
Director General, Policy, Quality and Appeals Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Yes, the employment insurance commissioners are participating.
NDP
Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
So the labour ones would be part of it as well. That's good news. I'm pleased to hear that; I don't want to sound critical of everything.
Disability claims or appeals make up a huge amount of the workload, and you nearly have to be a medical person to have that kind of understanding. To take all of these things and condense them down into so few people, I think you have your work cut out for you.
What are your thoughts on that?
Director General, Policy, Quality and Appeals Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
When someone is competing for a position as a member of the various panels, there will be criteria that he has to meet to be appointed. When they're hearing cases on, say, the Canada Pension Plan disability, they will have access to lawyers and medical expertise for their decision-making.
Director General, Policy, Quality and Appeals Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Exactly.