Finance Committee on May 31st, 2012

[Roxanne Dubois]

The environmental changes are certainly an interesting case to look at, because obviously it's important to care for our environment and make sure the regulations we have in place do have teeth to make sure we fight climate change and that there are sustainable policies moving forward. It's certainly something young people care about and have cared about in the past, which is likely why there are these kinds of policies in place.

So when they're included in this budget bill without a careful examination of the impact on the environment of all these changes, well, it does not foster a sense of discussion and a sense of understanding of the impact of the changes we're putting forward.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Do you think it undermines the confidence that young people have in the strength of our democracy?

[Roxanne Dubois]

I think it does nothing to engage people, just by its very overwhelming nature.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Fried, you mentioned some of the measures in this budget bill that you believe will increase inequality. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on that a bit.

My second question to you is on the broader impacts of growing inequality. We know objectively that inequality is increasing in Canada. It is one of the greatest challenges that we face today. We see movements around the world—the mouvement des indignés, the people who are very concerned about growing inequality.

Can you talk a bit about what that means, perhaps from a democratic perspective, but perhaps also from the perspective of social cohesion and social well-being?

[Mark Fried]

I think you said it well. Inequality does lead to unhealthy societies—unhealthy even in the sense of health, that people who are poor live less long and are more prone to unhappy lives.

The World Bank is quite clear that inequality—

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Would that be for the people at the bottom end of the income scale—I'm sorry to interrupt you—or do you agree with Mr. Wilkinson in the U.K. that it can have broader effects to people of all income levels?

[Mark Fried]

I'm not an expert on it, but certainly that sounds right to me.

The World Bank has been very clear that inequality limits economic growth and can actually be quite damaging to the economy and quite costly to society, particularly when you have large numbers of people who are not doing well.

On the particular measures in the bill, we're not experts on that, but I would point out that if the employment insurance requirements are going to require people to accept a job that is an hour's drive away, that would have a different impact on men than on women who are responsible for caring for the family, are unable to find day care in the place, and therefore make it very difficult to accept that job. So I would encourage you to take into account these differential impacts on men and women, rich and poor, young and old, when contemplating these measures.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Waldman, can you just comment for us—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You're out of time here, sorry.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

We get five minutes to question.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I'm going to have to be a little tougher on the time.

We'll go to Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have just a couple of questions. Try not to be too tough on time, please. Maybe start that after I am done.

Mr. Waldman, you are an immigration lawyer in Toronto?

[Lorne Waldman]

That's correct.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Is it true that you are seeking class action certification to sue the Government of Canada in relation to the immigration reforms?

[Lorne Waldman]

There is a case management conference today with a judge in the Federal Court on the issue of whether or not we're going to be able to proceed with that matter. I'm representing some people who are considering challenging this legislation.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

That's a good way of saying yes. I am a lawyer too, but I can read through that. Thank you very much for that information. So you are planning on suing the Government of Canada over immigration reforms.

I'd like to talk to the other people who came here today to talk about immigration. Should immigration laws be for Canadians or should they be for the immigrants?

Mr. Lee, would you please comment on that?

[Prof. Ian Lee]

I haven't looked into the details, but you are asking more of a policy-level question. You and the members of Parliament are elected by the citizens of Canada, not by the citizens of some other country around the world. They have their own parliaments and their own representatives. I believe that your responsibility, duty, and due diligence are to the Canadian people. Immigration should be benefiting Canada and serving Canada's needs, which are acute because of the aging of the population.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

You mean the overall needs, not specifically one Canadian here and one Canadian there?

[Prof. Ian Lee]

It's based on the needs of the Canadian economy in order to make us more competitive, so we can maintain a high standard of living, so that we can continue to afford our social programs and universities and so forth.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I don't need to hear any more from you. Everything you have said so far today has been absolutely 100% what I would say if given the opportunity.

Mr. Kurland.

[Richard Kurland]

I'm scared.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Richard Kurland]

A delicate balance has to be struck. Canada does have obligations at the diplomatic level. We do have relationships with other countries around the world. We do respect their citizens. We should provide them the opportunity to taste the values of Canadian fairness. Fundamentally, those have to be balanced against the interest of Canada. That is first and foremost.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

That's where I'm going to stop you, if you don't mind.

Do all of you have a family doctor? I see you nodding, but the microphone doesn't pick it up. Does anybody here not have a family doctor? Do you have a family doctor?

[Richard Kurland]

Yes.