Finance Committee on Oct. 18th, 2012

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Yes, because we had this discussion with the previous panel about a skills deficit in this country.

Some of it is being addressed by changes to what we're doing in immigration, making it more labour-driven, but we have, between the ages of 15 to 29, roughly 900,000 young people who are just kind of bouncing around out there, who don't have a skill, who don't have a trade. We were talking about making education a lifelong learning process, and I just wanted to ask your opinion on that.

Mr. Bobocel, today the government, Mr. Flaherty, introduced the second budget implementation act. In it there is the small business hiring credit, which will help over half a million small businesses. As you know, we've lowered the small business tax rate to 11%, something the NDP voted against. They were also critical today of the extension of the hiring tax credit.

I just want to get your opinion on how that credit has benefited many of your members. The chamber represents a lot of small and medium-sized businesses. Could you speak about how that has been a benefit to many of your members?

[Robin Bobocel]

Certainly.

With our chamber in particular, its makeup is about 85% small business. That's very representative of the business community in Edmonton itself, and, I suspect, to a large degree across the country.

Small business is a significant economic driver in our country, and in many ways it's very fragile. It makes sense that tax policies be engineered to facilitate commerce, to ease compliance costs, and to ease the burden of government so that small businesses can go on with the daily activities that drive the economy forward.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

How many members do you have in the chamber?

[Robin Bobocel]

We have just shy of 3,000 members.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

You have 3,000.

[Robin Bobocel]

We're the largest municipal chamber in the country.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Okay.

I'm going to ask you how many of those 3,000 members of the chamber—who are all business people, who all hire people, who all contribute to the economy, who all operate where the rubber hits the road. Did any one of them, with the knowledge of you coming here today, say to you, “Mr. Bobocel, please, please tell the finance committee that we favour a carbon tax”?

[Robin Bobocel]

No.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

No.

Mr. Egan, how many members do you have?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have seconds.

[Timothy Egan]

We have approximately a dozen distribution companies and 50 manufacturers and suppliers.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Did any one of them say to you—

[Timothy Egan]

Interestingly enough, no.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Does anyone else want to answer that question?

Thank you, Mr. Adler.

We will go to Mr. Brison, please.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I feel compelled to apologize to you for the last intervention.

In any case, I want to start off, Mr. Egan, on the whole issue of shale gas. One-third of America's gas supplies is now coming from shale gas. It's predicted that will be 50% by 2035, up probably. Projections are 820 billion cubic metres per year by that time. There are some projections of 600,000 American jobs by 2020 in this area.

Does Canada run the risk—in part because of the balkanization of our responsibility over natural resources on provincial boundaries—of missing out on a real boom that is transformative in the energy sector on the shale gas side in Canada?

[Timothy Egan]

It depends on where you're from in the country. In British Columbia, we're not missing out at all. A shale resource is being developed as we speak in northeastern British Columbia. Interestingly enough, it's supported by both sides of the provincial house, both the sitting government and the principal opposition party, the New Democrats. They are very supportive of developing that resource to the benefit of British Columbians.

The situation is not the same in some other jurisdictions. In the Maritimes, there are some real issues about the development of the shale resource.

We've just finished hosting a three-day International Gas Union conference at the Château Laurier, so it was a convenient move here from there. We had representatives from dozens of countries around the world; every continent was represented. The opportunity that shale gas development represents around the world is a truly extraordinary one. But what we find is that each jurisdiction takes a different approach, in part in response to whether it has developed such resources before. In eastern Canada, such resources have not been developed before and there's an understandable hesitancy and caution about it.

But we believe it can be developed safely and responsibly. Good regulatory frameworks are in place where it is being developed now and could be applied in these other jurisdictions. If it isn't, then there is an opportunity missed.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

The Premier of Alberta has recently called for—I believe she's using the term “national energy strategy”. Is this one of the areas where national leadership on energy would be helpful in terms of a pedagogical exercise, where you actually engage the public and help provide information? There's a lot of misinformation out there now, and one could say even propaganda, about shale gas.

[Timothy Egan]

Yes. It's my understanding that Natural Resources Canada is actually in the process of collecting such information. It's commissioned some work in order to ensure that there is more of a national scientific perspective. I'm somewhat cautious about the idea of a national energy strategy to facilitate this because—

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Those aren't my words as a federal Liberal; they are from the provincial Progressive Conservative Premier of Alberta.

[Timothy Egan]

I appreciate that. My point is that I think the appropriate regulatory regimes can be developed in the provinces. The federal government's role can be to speak to the economic opportunity that's represented by developing the resource across the country.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Sure.

Mr. Carr, earlier today we heard from the community colleges, and we talked about the skills gap that exists. Is there room for, and an opportunity for, greater cooperation between universities, community colleges, and trade schools in Canada, so that across the country we can see people not only attain the liberal arts educations that are so important to critical thinking, but also the trades that are so closely linked to the jobs of today and the jobs of tomorrow? Could we be doing a better job of working together and having institutions whereby you could graduate from a university with a B.A. in English and at the same time a horticulture degree or a welding diploma?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

A brief response, Mr. Carr.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Could there be more work done in that regard, and are other countries doing a better job?

[Dr. Graham Carr]

Yes, there could be more work done in that regard. There already is work done in that regard. I think it would be a mistake to, again, make a choice between the kind of applied research that takes place at colleges and the kinds of research activities, which are both applied and fundamental, at universities. It's a tremendous opportunity for universities and colleges to collaborate to incubate programs and research activities in colleges that could then train students, and also prepare them for transitioning to the universities, not just to the workforce. I think we need to bear in mind that applied skills are very important for addressing current job issues, but some of the longer-term pipeline issues around research, and the kinds of training opportunities that are linked to research, need to be supported as well.