Finance Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2012

[Wayne Marston, NDP, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Van Kesteren, please.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, all, for coming before us.

Mr. Dubreuil, some of these things you talked about are astounding. I don't know if anybody else was thinking the same thing when you gave us these statistics: it's just over a million businesses that have under 100,000 employees, and almost 98% are under 100 employees. That's incredible.

That's incredible. Our unemployment rate is just over 7%, but it constitutes about 1.4 million people. In essence, if we can get it right with regard to some of the things you talked about, we have the capability. If we just had one more hire in every one of those businesses, we could wipe out our unemployment rate.

[Guillaum Dubreuil]

That's certainly one way to look at it, for sure.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

That's something that I know we've.... I myself have mentioned it as well when speaking to people about wanting those big factors. It really is the small business that is the main engine and the main driver.

You've spoken about the importance of free trade and free trade agreements. I wonder if you could tell us the importance of these and why they're so fundamental in building businesses and achieving that goal.

[Guillaum Dubreuil]

There's no doubt that developing new export, and even import, markets is of the utmost importance for the development of that network of small and medium-sized businesses. What I believe is most important is to conserve and to build on that network. When one piece falls, it certainly will affect three, five, or ten people in a community; it will not affect a whole community or small town where there is a factory where everyone is employed.

I think that's the importance.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Training is fundamental. We had a witness with us last week from post-secondary education, and I appreciate what Ms. Busch-Vishniac was saying, as well, about the fact that we need a strategy.

Can you give us some ideas about how we can be more successful and effective in post-secondary education for the jobs of tomorrow? Do you have some ideas? Then I'm going to switch that question over to you, because I have a small segment I want to get to.

[Guillaum Dubreuil]

There is no doubt that the University of Saskatchewan is a great example of what's going on and what has to be done. We strongly believe that universities and private businesses have to work hand in hand to develop new technologies that will benefit everyone.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Would universities agree to a government suggestion to change course content under certain circumstances? Mr. Jean will tell you today how many people are needed in his riding and how many are needed in the extraction sector.

But are you keen on a government suggestion of that kind?

[Dr. Ilene Busch-Vishniac]

We are very keen to interact with businesses. We know that our students, when they graduate, wish to be employed, so we have traditionally worked very closely with businesses, particularly in the extractive industries.

We do think it's important, however, to recognize that as a university we do not exist to replace the training that must exist within businesses so that students can be certified on specialized equipment.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Mr. Blanchet, you've properly pointed out how important the transit industry is in your riding. We all know how many areas are affected by that employment. Can you talk to us a little bit about the public-private partnerships in greater Montreal? I understand there is a construction maintenance centre for commuter trains in Lachine. Can you talk to us about that and how effective it is?

[Bernard Blanchet]

Yes, it was done with Alstom. We worked with a group of engineers. We worked as three groups: our own employees, the engineers from outside firms, and the suppliers.

We did the same thing for our new system, a system called iBus. We hired people who know the technology, and now we are bringing them to our system. We put the people together so that when they leave we will know how to run things and achieve the assets. Afterwards we can do it in-house. That is the way we're doing it. We're working with a lot of universities to accomplish some things with our employees.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Van Kesteren.

Mr. Mai, you have the floor.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to come back to something Mr. Van Kesteren said about the importance of small businesses. There are several small businesses in my riding, Brossard—La Prairie, and they are absolutely essential.

Our position is that taxes on small businesses should be reduced from 11% to 9% rather than taking the side of big businesses. In fact, as even my colleagues mentioned, their attitude can lead to significant sums of money being left inactive. That is money that is not reinvested in the economy. That creates problems, especially for youth.

Could you speak to the fact that the level of unemployment amongst youth is currently twice that of the average unemployment rate? What can we do to improve that situation?

[Guillaum Dubreuil]

There is no doubt about it, this is a huge problem throughout the country. Young people are finding it increasingly difficult to find a job. That is, moreover, why we would like to see some measures encouraging entrepreneurship.

If people could create their own jobs and be part of a network of small businesses instead of waiting to find a job, or if they could, by banding together, purchase a business from an individual who is getting ready to retire rather than seeing this person close shop or transfer it to foreign hands, this would indeed be very positive.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Do you think that the NDP measure to reduce the tax rates for small businesses could improve things in that area?

[Guillaum Dubreuil]

I think that this measure would give businesses a little bit of breathing room. However, this measure will not resolve the serious problem of entrepreneurs who retire and who, one day or the next, close their business, regardless of the tax rate.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Blanchet, my colleague Olivia Chow has introduced a bill calling for a strategic national public transport plan. We want to provide stable long-term funding and do away with this case-by-case approach for individual projects. We know that the government has not supported this bill.

Is this an idea that you support? Would you be in favour of having a national plan in order to invest in public transport, which would create jobs?

[Bernard Blanchet]

Indeed, the entity that resulted from the merger of 22 cities that occurred a few years ago under the mayor of Montreal at that time has already taken steps along that line. Partnerships have been established with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities and the Canadian Urban Transit Association.

This is exactly what we see in the last CUTA platform. Regardless of which method is used, we are seeing more and more cohesion to work together towards attaining one goal. We have done our homework. Everyone has presented business plans or strategic plans. We know where our assets are located. We know exactly what we need. In every location throughout Canada, in each of the provinces, we know exactly how to meet our public transit needs. It's the same as it is for any other sector: if the service exists, people will use it. That is exactly what is occurring now. In the absence of a specific policy on this issue, it is important that we work together, and that is what we are seeing now. All of the parties have realized that everyone is rowing in the same direction.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

That is great.

Dr. Raza, I don't know if you've seen the leaflet. The government's really proud to have cut refugee health care. We've seen the member from Saskatchewan come out really proud of that action. Is it something that you support? Again, that means downloading the problem to provinces because we know that provinces will be picking up the tab at the end.

Can you maybe comment on that, and maybe Dr. Ilene Busch-Vishniac also?

[Dr. Danyaal Raza]

What we're being told is that the cuts are to equalize the delivery of health care for refugees as for other Canadians, but the reality is that across provinces most Canadians on social assistance had the same level of benefits as refugees did before the cuts. Now that the cuts have happened, we're getting stories across the country about how refugees are being denied care.

There have been mixed messages from Citizenship and Immigration Canada, which have resulted in a lot of confusion amongst health providers as to exactly what is covered. In fact, even after the cuts, some refugees who would be covered are being denied services because health providers just don't know what to do.

It's a significant problem. We pride ourselves on a country that is welcoming to newcomers, is a refuge in stormy times overseas, and delivers health care equitably. Unfortunately, that's not happening for refugees coming to Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

All right, thank you.

Mr. Jean is next, please.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for attending today.

I want to spend most of my time with CAPP. It does lead the country in jobs, with 500,000 Canadians employed directly or indirectly, and you see that number rising possibly by up to 110,000 to 130,000 in the next seven years, so it's a very important part of our economy.

I first want to compliment CAPP for taking the lead in something that happened this summer. In Fort McMurray we had a fundraiser, and CAPP came to lead that fundraiser to send over $1 million in medicines to the third world. I want to congratulate you for that, and both Syncrude and Suncor. It was amazing to see the come-together of the community—oil resources, in particular—in sending that money overseas in the way of medicines. I know my colleagues appreciated, as did my constituents, being part of that.

I want to ask you this hypothetically. On page 4 of the NDP's platform, there was an advocation of a carbon tax that would be an additional tax of $21 billion for fossil fuels, in essence, and to raise that $21 billion from oil sands producers in particular. Who would ultimately pay that increase of taxation?

[David Collyer]

Well, I think, ultimately, the consumer pays.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

That's why I want to ask you the next question. Consumers ultimately pay the price of fuel, and I want to talk about how we can get lower fuel prices for Canadians.

I think there are only two ways to do that. One is in the short term, in regulation and control of a competitive environment, which ultimately doesn't work, and we've seen that in many countries around the world. The other is to increase and grow the economy of the particular country that's producing it and have a better quality of life with more disposable income, so it's less of an impact.

Is that fair to say? Those are the only two ways: you either control it through regulation or you grow the economy and have a robust economy.