Finance Committee on Nov. 5th, 2012

Evidence of meeting #88 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rate.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-45, A second Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 29, 2012 and other measures

Committee Business

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ray Cuthbert Director, CPP/EI Rulings Division, Canada Revenue Agency

Mireille Laroche Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development

Tamara Miller Chief, Labour Markets, Employment and Learning, Department of Finance

Jane Pearse Director, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Kathleen Kelly Executive Director, Pension Policy and Program, Treasury Board Secretariat

Kim Gowing Director, Pensions and Benefits Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

The agency was created with a board of management. The agency has the power to hand over mandates to this board. The agency is the only separate employer that has this flexibility. To err on the side of caution, we also wanted all separate employers to be governed in the same way in order to be able to go to one source for all the mandates.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC

What about the disparities in the conditions of the Canada Revenue Agency and those of other organizations? Are they very different? Is there a big gap?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

The conditions are similar. Some differences may occur, as they did in previous years. However, I must say that the conditions now are almost the same.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Is double-dipping part of the negotiations or discussions?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

No.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC

It is a completely different story.

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

It is entirely different.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Hoang Mai NDP Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Okay, thank you.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Merci. Are there any other questions?

Mr. Brison, go ahead.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Just to be clear, will these measures in Bill C-45 apply to the current collective bargaining negotiations?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

Do they apply to the current parties that are negotiating? Sorry, is that the question? Yes, that's correct.

The CRA has two bargaining agents they deal with. They have two large collective agreements. One is currently bargaining, and one expired a month ago, I believe. Therefore, when this comes into effect, if their mandate has not yet been approved, then they will have to come to us and ask the President of Treasury Board for a mandate.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Okay, but when did the negotiations begin?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

They began a month ago. The collective agreement expired a month ago.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

But these provisions have not yet been passed?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

No, they haven't, and they haven't been held to them either. However, if we just play this out and they take a year to 18 months to negotiate, when they are going to sign the collective agreement, they will be required to get Governor in Council approval before applying the settlement.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Just to be clear, despite the fact that these measures haven't been passed in Parliament, are they being applied to the current negotiations?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

No, no, no. Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead. They're not being applied right now. They will be applied once this comes into force.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Thank you.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Mr. Marston, go ahead, please.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Just so we're clear, in the past the department itself conducted its own negotiations. They didn't have to go back to get these permissions. Is this new?

5 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

That's correct. This is entirely new for them.

5 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

I'll follow up on what Mr. Brison mentioned. You would originally have to get an understanding of your mandate before negotiations started under these terms, and then when you concluded negotiations, you would have to go back to have that reaffirmed.

5 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

Are you talking about previously?

5 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

If this bill passes now, on anything going forward from there, would you get pre-approval of where you are expected to go by the government, and then when you concluded negotiations, would you have to go back again?

5 p.m.

Executive Director, Compensation and Labour Relations, Treasury Board Secretariat

Carl Trottier

You'd have to go to the Governor in Council, yes.