Finance Committee on Nov. 7th, 2012

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not sure whether Mr. Cuzner would consider this as a friendly amendment or something that should be moved separately.

I don't know that he has actually had an opportunity, as someone who is a substitute, to actually look at our schedule on this committee. Of course, right now we're very full. We have many items that we want to be dealing with over the next number of months.

I suggest that due to the full agenda facing the committee and difficulties in scheduling additional meetings, I'm wondering if the committee could provide a list of questions to officials from Canada Revenue Agency regarding the cost of implementation and administration of Bill C-377 by—and we'll give them a specific date—and that the answers be provided, in writing, to the chair of the committee prior to the committee's clause-by-clause consideration.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Can you read it one more time, Ms. McLeod?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

The motion would read, “That due to the full agenda facing the committee and due to difficulties in scheduling additional meetings, the committee provide a list of questions to officials from the Canada Revenue Agency regarding the cost of implementation and administration of Bill C-377 by”—

—and we'll ask the clerk in terms of the most appropriate date—

—“and that the answers be provided in writing to the chair of the committee prior to the clause-by-clause consideration of this bill.”

It's essentially to get the information that you want, but to respect our schedule, we're proposing to have written submissions.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Chair, I see that as a friendly amendment. Through you to Ms. McLeod, do you see each party submitting a list of questions to CRA?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Absolutely. I think, obviously, if we have 20 or 30 pages, the task of the CRA officials would be very challenging, but we hopefully can be respectful and key in on what the important issues are regarding this bill. I think we have to have some sense of what is doable within the timeframe available.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I think Ms. McLeod is saying that all parties can submit questions to the chair for submission to CRA.

Mr. Cuzner, since you're open to it, can we just take that motion rather than amend your motion? Can we just work from this motion? It might be easier.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I'm comfortable with that as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Nash.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I'm comfortable with the motion as well. I just want to clarify that when the chair gets the answers, they would be for distribution to the members of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Absolutely. That's how I read the motion.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It would be provided in writing to the chair. Of course, that's prior to clause-by-clause study. Again, I think we need to recognize the timeframes.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

All those in favour of this motion?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

I think that's unanimous.

Mr. Cuzner, I believe you had a second motion dealing with the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Yes, and this wouldn't require any further time from the committee. This would just simply be asking the Parliamentary Budget Officer to undertake a cost analysis study of Bill C-377.

I think that would be aligned with a private member's bill that was put forward by Mr. Hoback a while back.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you, Mr. Cuzner.

I'll go to Ms. Glover, please.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Cuzner for the motion.

I did want to let Mr. Cuzner know, though, that there's a letter dated November 21, 2011, from the PBO saying he's already costed this one. In fact, I'll read the third paragraph of his letter. What he's done is he's costed PMBs for those that may have a material impact on Canada's fiscal framework as well as those that may have a significant operational impact on an affected department or departments.

Then he goes on to cite that of the 27 bills that his office looked at, there were only two that had an impact, and this was not one of them. It may already have been done, so I'm wondering why we might need a further motion for it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Nash, please.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I don't have that letter from the PBO in front of me, but it's my understanding that what the PBO said is that he has not been able to do a full analysis of this bill, but if requested by the finance committee, he would be willing to do so. I would think that would be information that this committee would want to have.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. Thank you.

Is there further discussion?

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I suppose it's all relative, but when we're looking at the work of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, he considers whether anything below $5 billion is worth putting time into, such as in the case of the F-35 contract. However, I'm sure that if he was requested by the committee to have a look at this, he would be able to cost it out for us. I will stand by this motion.

I'm willing to table the documents that I referred to today on the fact that it costs $33 million annually for the charities component of CRA, when we're looking at the cost of administering a program very similar to those in the United States labour standards. I'd like to table those specific documents here today, but again, I think it's in everybody's best interest to have the Parliamentary Budget Officer do this.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay, thank you.

I'll go back to Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you.

Once again, we have no problem with the PBO costing it. I'm just referring to a letter that says he's addressed the committee's motion that requires him to actually cost these things, and he states clearly that this has been costed by his department.

I'm happy to vote for the motion again, to have him redo it; however, we'd also like him to explain why he didn't follow his mandate and do it right the first time. It's a requirement, and he says he's done it. We would like an explanation.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

We have some uncertainty here. I'm wondering whether we could put the motion to the side and deal with it at a later date. It sounds as though he's already costed it and has already done his job.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Because of an earlier motion we adopted, the earliest we could deal with this would be the Monday following the break week. That's an option for the committee.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

It seems a clarification is necessary in order to find out exactly what he's done. There's no sense in asking him to do something that he's already done.