Evidence of meeting #10 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Spiro  Dentons Canada LLP, As an Individual
Yvon Bolduc  Chief Executive Officer, Fonds de solidarité des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec
Jack Mintz  Director and Palmer Chair in Public Policy, School of Public Policy, University of Calgary, As an Individual
Michael Colborne  Partner, Thorsteinssons LLP
Gabriel Hayos  Vice-President, Taxation, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
Joyce Reynolds  Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association
François-William Simard  Director, Strategy and Economic Affairs, Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec
Thomas Hayes  President and Chief Executive Officer, GrowthWorks Atlantic Ltd.
Chris Arsenault  President, iNovia Capital Inc.
John Bergenske  Executive Director, Wildsight
Brenda Baxter  Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development
Ted Cook  Senior Legislative Chief, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Armine Yalnizyan  Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Monique Moreau  Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Michelle Gauthier  Vice-President, Public Policy and Community Engagement, Imagine Canada
Marie-Hélène Arruda  Coordinator, Mouvement autonome et solidaire des sans-emploi (réseau québécois)

November 25th, 2013 / 5 p.m.

Thomas Hayes President and Chief Executive Officer, GrowthWorks Atlantic Ltd.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to appear before you and your colleagues today to address important issues that relate to the venture capital ecosystem in Canada.

In its March 2013 budget, the federal government announced a surprise phase-out of the long-standing 15% federal tax credit for Canadian investors who have chosen to support budding entrepreneurs across Canada who want to start and grow their businesses. This federal tax credit has resulted in the levering of billions of private dollars of risk capital, from millions of Canadians, being invested in thousands of early-stage companies since the early 1980s.

In fact, since the program was created by the Mulroney government, well over one third of all venture capital available in Canada has come from labour-sponsored venture capital funds in British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and Labrador, and, of course, Nova Scotia, my home province.

The decision to phase out the federal tax credit came as a complete surprise and shock to the VC industry in Canada. There was no consultation with entrepreneurs, no consultation with existing shareholders in labour funds, no consultations with fund managers, and to my knowledge no consultation with the provincial governments, which, in certain cases, also provide a matching provincial tax credit to investors in these funds.

Since this decision was announced by the federal government in March, the industry players most affected by this change have worked hard to convince the federal government of the negative unintended consequences of this phase-out. Many documents have been prepared by knowledgeable persons on the negative impact this will have on the supply of capital to our entrepreneurs and the negative impact this will have on the retirement savings of many Canadians who invested in these funds. Reports have been submitted; letters have been written; petitions have been presented; and briefings with senior officials of the Department of Finance have been held, all to no avail.

The Canadian Venture Capital Association, an industry group representing all parties in the Canadian VC ecosystem, has gone on record as opposing this phase-out and has clearly articulated why this decision should be reviewed and a better solution should be found before serious damage is inflicted in the marketplace.

We are told the federal government is changing its approach to ensuring that an adequate supply of venture capital is available to Canadian entrepreneurs and companies by directly investing $400 million of new capital into the industry. Many of us in the industry are strongly supportive of this initiative known as the VCAP program and we remain supportive. But this support for VCAP was never based on the idea of phasing out the federal tax credit of 15%, which generates much-needed private investment dollars that can be used to grow and diversify our Canadian economy. Think of it: the federal government puts up 15¢ on the dollar to raise an additional 85¢ on the dollar—that’s what I call significant leverage at minimal risk to the federal treasury. And remember, no one forces Canadian retail investors to invest in this asset class. Tax credits aside, retail investors have a wide array of investment choices, including thousands of mutual funds, available to them, and fund managers must demonstrate a reasonable expectation of return on investment to investors or they'll go elsewhere with their savings. With this announced phase-out of the tax credits, ongoing fund liquidity becomes a major challenge and how this affects the fortunes of the existing companies in our portfolio is a serious issue.

Perhaps, in closing, I can use a quick example to illustrate the point I would like to make. In 2007, the fund I manage made a $500,000 investment in a Halifax-based early-stage company in the pharmaceutical space called Sampling Technologies Inc. This company was started by three local pharma reps who came to the conclusion there had to be a better way to distribute drug samples from doctor to patient. Drug companies can now provide physicians with STI smart cards rather than physical samples. The patient takes the card to the pharmacy where they are issued the sample at no cost. This new system cuts costs, improves patient safety, and provides real-time information to the drug company on the distribution of their samples. STI—

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

You have one minute.

5:05 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, GrowthWorks Atlantic Ltd.

Thomas Hayes

—just like every other early-stage company struggled in the first few years trying to find its feet and, as a result, we invested a second round of $1.5 million to provide them further runway to achieve success. The product offering was refined; new products were developed; new senior managers were hired; and the company has now blossomed into one of the most innovative and fastest-growing marketing solution companies in Canada. Employment increased from seven when we invested to well over sixty well-paying, high-value jobs in Nova Scotia. I think it's fair to say that without our equity capital in those early years this company would not have achieved the results it did, including recently attracting $17 million in new capital from a Toronto-based private equity firm. Our $2 million investment was recently turned into a $6 million exit for our fund shareholders.

With the phase-out of the federal tax credit, our ability to make follow-on investments like this one in existing portfolio companies may be seriously compromised, forcing these companies to look for other sources of capital under duress. These companies may have to accept punitive terms from new investors or not raise the necessary capital at all, thereby negatively affecting the asset value for our fund shareholders who are generally middle-class Canadians. How ironic would it be if one of our companies had to accept a new round of funding at a lower valuation from one of the new VCAP funds sponsored by the federal government? That's what I would call a negative transfer of wealth.

I have some other comments I'll make, hopefully, in the Q and A session.

Thank you.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Hayes.

Mr. Arsenault, the floor is yours.

5:05 p.m.

Chris Arsenault President, iNovia Capital Inc.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Chris Arsenault and I am the CEO of iNovia Capital.

I would first like to thank the members of the committee for inviting us here today. We are very pleased to share with you our comments and concerns concerning the bill's provisions aimed at gradually eliminating the labour-sponsored funds tax credit.

I will briefly introduce iNovia Capital so that you can see where we fit in the ecosystem of Canadian venture capital.

iNovia is currently one of the largest venture capital fund managers in Canada. We manage some $270 million allocated among three different funds. The most recent one, Fund III, was closed just under two years ago and invests in information technology startup companies.

Since iNovia capital was launched in December 2001, it has invested in 47 Canadian high tech startups. Of that number, 27 are still active and remain in our 3-fund portfolio. These three companies now employ 1,250 people. They have attracted over $330 million in Canadian and foreign capital and have generated over $260 million in revenues in the past 12 months. There is no doubt that most of these companies would not have been launched or succeeded as well without the involvement of iNovia and our partners.

Our first investment fund of $46 million was created in December 2001, with the Fonds de solidarité FTQ holding around 21% of the capital owing to an investment of $10 million. Fourteen university spin-offs have been created.

Our second fund was created in April 2007 from a total of $112 million from some 30 investors. Some of the largest investors in this fund are the Fonds de solidarité FTQ Fondaction and FIER Partenaires, of which the Fonds de solidarité FTQ and Fondaction are major partners. Taken together, these three entities account for over 30% of our Fund II, which has invested in more than 17 Canadian startups since 2007.

Finally, our Fund III was launched in December 2011, using $111 million committed by 27 investors. Teralys Capital is our largest investor and partner, having put in $50 million, or 45% of the fund. The Fonds de solidarité FTQ holds a 33% partnership in Teralys Capital.

As you can see, iNovia is a very active investor in early-stage technology companies in Canada. The highly innovative companies we back are creating high-paying jobs and are making Canada a place to build industry leaders.

I offer a few examples. We backed and enabled the growth of a company called CoolIT, based in Calgary. Now with 20 employees, it is already establishing itself as a worldwide leader in computer liquid cooling. A four-year-old company out of Montreal, Beyond The Rack, now has over 300 employees, generating over $100 million in revenue. That company has three VC funds, all backed by the Fonds de solidarité FTQ.

iNovia, as is the case for many other Canadian VC funds, has been very fortunate in being able to benefit from the direct and indirect financial implications of the labour-sponsored funds. I believe it's safe to state that none of our funds, II or III, could have existed without the direct or indirect financial implications of the Fonds de solidarité FTQ and Fonds d'actions.

Labour-sponsored funds, and more particularly the Fonds de solidarité FTQ, have become a vital part of Canada's venture capital ecosystem. iNovia fully endorses the opinions expressed by Canada's Venture Capital & Private Equity Association in its July 23 letter addressed to the honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Flaherty. With all due respect, we believe the federal government has understated the importance and impact labour-sponsored funds have on the Canadian economy. We therefore respectfully request that the government reconsider its proposal to progressively eliminate the federal tax credits of labour-sponsored funds as proposed in the 2013 budget.

Mr. Chairman, I wish to thank you and all committee members for listening to iNovia's position on this matter. It will be my pleasure to answer any questions.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We'll begin members' questions.

Mr. Caron, you have the floor.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Simard, you represent the Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec, but you are not the only one to support the Fonds de solidarité FTQ and Fondaction, that is, the Quebec model.

Other organizations, such as the Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal, the Regroupement des jeunes chambres de commerce du Québec, Manufacturiers et exportateurs du Québec, as well as Canada's Venture Capital and Private Equity Association, are all opposed to a decision to phase out the federal tax credit.

Why do you think that is?

5:10 p.m.

Director, Strategy and Economic Affairs, Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec

François-William Simard

I don't know if one could say there's unanimity but one can certainly say that in Quebec there's a rather broad consensus within society, within political parties, within the public and within businesses that labour-sponsored funds have had a very significant impact on regional economic development, among other effects.

Unfortunately our board is not necessarily the best example of good governance standards because it is made up of approximately 80 individuals. However, one of the advantages of having so many members is that we are in a position to take the pulse of businesses all over Quebec. When we raised this issue, people were very clear: the federal government must reconsider its position quite simply because these funds do not play the same role that, for example, strictly private funds play.

It is important to understand the distinction. First, the investment horizon is not at all the same. The investment horizon for strictly private funds is approximately five years, whereas the horizon is much more long term for labour-sponsored funds. That makes a very big difference for business startups that are much riskier in the beginning.

I think there are two more factors that explain this consensus. Labour-sponsored funds are present throughout the regions and they invest throughout the regions. I have a list of the numerous investments that have been made in all areas of Quebec and that I would be happy to share with you later.

Furthermore, these funds involve all sectors. Rather than focus on specific sectors, these funds truly focus on all sectors. This also makes a difference for some businesses that need funding but that aren't necessarily within a trendy sector.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Thank you.

Mr. Arsenault, I was very impressed with your remarks. You drew an extremely interesting connection between the work done by labour-sponsored funds, and the labour-sponsored funds in Quebec, and private capital funds.

Earlier today we heard from Mr. Jack Mintz. He told us that he doesn't see any reason to have this tax credit. First, it intrudes into the market and prevents the private sector from developing. Second, he says the rate of return of Canadian labour-sponsored venture capital funds is lower than that of American venture capital funds because of these tax credits and the involvement of labour-sponsored funds. Could you give us your perspective on that?

5:15 p.m.

President, iNovia Capital Inc.

Chris Arsenault

I read the report and I quite simply do not see what that has to do with us. It does not reflect our reality. In Quebec, this fund was a key partner from the very beginning, more than 13 years ago.

When I think about the Fonds FTQ, I've never seen them as a competitor in any deal. I saw them as a partner, and a transparent partner. For us, their substantial investment in each fund has enabled us to actually do what we do. We are a top-tier fund in North America, and we can compare ourselves to the best returns in North America.

Okay, we still have a long way to go. Canada has a long way to go. This is innovation and technology, and I'm sorry, but if you want to build category leaders, you need to have people who understand the long-term prospects of it, and long-term investments require long-term commitments of 10 to 12 to 13 years from limited partners. In our case, the Fonds have enabled us to actually play that role.

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

My last question will be brief, Mr. Simard.

Mr. Sean Keenan, the director of the Sales Tax Division in the finance department appeared before this committee, and I asked him if the government had done any impact studies for this measure. I wanted to know if there had been an impact study in terms of the level of risk capital in Canada, in terms of the level of savings of individuals in Quebec, and whether a comparative study was done on the impact of the offer made by the workers' funds, which called for the government to not proceed with this measure. He stated clearly that there had been no impact study for those three cases. What do you think the impact of the government's measure would be in those three cases?

5:15 p.m.

Director, Strategy and Economic Affairs, Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec

François-William Simard

An impact study has not been done. Unfortunately, I missed the beginning of the testimony of the previous guests, but I heard Mr. Bolduc mention that if the federal government decides to go forward and uphold this decision, for them, I believe it means that they will lose 16,000 jobs. I am not sure if he said that 400 or 4,000 businesses would no longer have access to these funds. I will let you figure out the numbers, but for us, this is very worrisome.

We have always said it. Of course, we are more active in the Quebec Federation of Chambers of Commerce and in Quebec's National Assembly, but no matter which decision is made, we are asking for some economic impact studies to be done. For several years, we have been repeating ad nauseam that this is very important to us. We would be very pleased if we could obtain this data, if we could get it from an independent organization like the federal government. We think that it would support our arguments.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Caron.

I'm going to go to Mr. Keddy, please.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome to our witnesses.

I have a couple of questions for Ms. Reynolds, with the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association.

As a point of clarification, in your testimony you talked about the requirement of giving a receipt. Can you explain that a little further? I can tell you as a consumer, any time that I don't get a receipt I assume I've made a contribution to the underground economy.

5:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Joyce Reynolds

In our industry we have 18 million transactions a day.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS

Of course.

5:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Joyce Reynolds

When people are purchasing their coffee and their muffin in the morning most of them actually don't want a receipt. They don't want to take the receipt and they leave the receipt behind.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS

I appreciate that, but you have to explain this to me because I seldom pick my receipt up.

There is no purpose for me to pick that receipt up, but I know when I have a transaction and there's a receipt involved, that I've not made a contribution to the underground economy. As a business person, I would want to have a receipt so I can tally all my information up at the end of the day and know exactly where I am.

How can we get away and not have a receipt?

5:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Joyce Reynolds

We have no objection to a requirement that you have to provide a receipt upon request. We have absolutely no problem with that. They will always provide a receipt upon request. The issue is that you have to give it to the customer whether they want it or not. That's the issue.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS

Often we don't want it.

5:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Joyce Reynolds

Yes, that's right.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS

The other part that you touched on in your testimony was about the zapper technology that changes the receipts. We know this technology is out there.

We've tried to close in on that as a government. What has the restaurant association done on your part, as the industry that is directly affected by this?

5:15 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Joyce Reynolds

We've worked very closely with Canada Revenue Agency.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS

And we appreciate that.

5:20 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Government Affairs, Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association

Joyce Reynolds

We've come up with guidelines and checklists for our members which we put on our website. Then we distribute it to our members on occasion, the five things that Canada Revenue Agency is looking for when they inspect your business.

We try to increase awareness and educate our members about what the responsibilities are in terms of their reporting.