Evidence of meeting #21 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was card.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Acting Vice-President, Policy and Operations, Canadian Bankers Association
Are you referring to FATCA, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act?
4:10 p.m.
Acting Vice-President, Policy and Operations, Canadian Bankers Association
I won't go too far down on FATCA, but in the case of FATCA, you're talking about whether or not there's actually any income earned on this as opposed to simply a transaction.
If we're talking about transactions, those are not directly related to FATCA. FATCA relates to income that's earned or accrued.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I understand that, but in determining that, doesn't all of the information on the accounts that clients have with you have to be supplied?
4:10 p.m.
Acting Vice-President, Policy and Operations, Canadian Bankers Association
Not every transaction has to be, if that's what you're asking. It's only in respect of income.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Acting Vice-President, Policy and Operations, Canadian Bankers Association
It has nothing to do with whether or not it's mobile; it really has to do with whether or not you're talking about income.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I hope this will be determined, Mr. Chairman. I think it would be useful.
Does provincial and territorial legislation on digital commerce apply to digital wallets?
4:10 p.m.
Commissioner, Executive Services, Financial Consumer Agency of Canada
It depends, but yes, it can.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
In that case, is there consistency across the provincial legislation?
4:10 p.m.
Commissioner, Executive Services, Financial Consumer Agency of Canada
Actually, our research report found that, for the purpose of consumer protection, it would be beneficial to establish minimum consumer protection standards for all m-payment sources.
Given that, as a federal agency, we don't have jurisdiction over some industries, the different jurisdictional authorities would have to work together.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Commissioner, Executive Services, Financial Consumer Agency of Canada
The first is uneven consumer protection. A number of players have a hand in that area, but they aren't all subject to the same obligations when it comes to consumer protection. So introducing consistency is important.
The second risk we identified has to do with the consumer protection principle that consumers should have access to dispute resolution and redress mechanisms. That is an important component to include.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Mr. Wilkes, with regard to the card-present versus card-not-present transactions, the fees for card-not-present transactions are higher. You say these are the fees that are now being applied to mobile transactions?
4:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Grocery Division and Government Relations, Retail Council of Canada
That's what we want to ensure. Right now, as mobile penetrates the market, what we're calling for is an update to the code of conduct to indicate that mobile payments would be treated as card-present, not—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Are you suggesting that the fees currently being applied are the equivalent of card-not-present fees?
4:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Grocery Division and Government Relations, Retail Council of Canada
At the present time, the members have expressed concern that we don't migrate into that card-not-present arena.
As to how they're being applied right now, I'd have to get back to you on that.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Welcome to our witnesses. I have a couple of questions.
Ms. Pohlmann, I'd like clarification on one of the points in your PowerPoint. Under “Update Credit and Debit Card of Conduct to cover emerging digital payments including”, you have three points, and your second point begins “Full consumer and merchant choice...”.
4:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Yes.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
When we talk about choice, we believe that the merchant should have full choice to choose which forms of payment they accept—
4:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Yes, or that they will be willing to provide, and consumers should have the choice of what they will use to actually pay.
Our concern is default payments. With mobile technology, there is the capacity for, say, Visa wallet to make sure that the card that shows up on the consumer's mobile wallet is the Visa card first, which is the highest-priced card that the merchant accepts. They should not be able to do that. They should allow the consumer to decide whether or not they want to use their debit or whatever. At the same time, it should be up to the merchant to decide whether or not they accept Visa credit cards but not Visa mobile. They should be able to make that choice.
