Evidence of meeting #30 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Had the Conservative government not enacted their last three budgets, would there have been more job creation as a consequence, in your opinion?
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Economic and Fiscal Analysis, Library of Parliament
That's our estimate, it's 46,000 by 2016.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Right.
Could you describe the last time we saw direct program spending cuts of a similar magnitude to those that we're seeing in 2014-15?
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Economic and Fiscal Analysis, Library of Parliament
In terms of the growth in program spending, I think it's a historical low. We have not seen this in the past.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
I want to make sure I give my last two minutes to Mr. Caron for a question, if I could.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Could you comment on this government's behaviour surrounding lapsed funding? Is there a precedent for such a large degree of lapsed funding, in your experience?
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Economic and Fiscal Analysis, Library of Parliament
Parliament cannot exceed the appropriation level that is approved by Parliament. Having some lapse is normal in the operation because managers have to ensure that they're not going to exceed that, so they are obviously very prudent in managing their finances. Normally what happens is that at the end of the year some money is left over, but in the past few years we have seen a significant increase in the amount of lapse.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I would like to ask for an update.
In 2012, before you took up your position, the leader of the official opposition made a request to the parliamentary budget office with three specific questions.
At the time, we were talking about budget 2012, but if you have done any updates for the budgets of 2013 and 2014, we would like to know that.
The three questions that the leader of the opposition asked were as follows. Were the savings outlined in budget 2012 achievable or likely to be achieved? Would failing to achieve those savings result in fiscal consequences in the longer term? He also asked for a calculation of the savings premised on staffing reductions.
Those are the actual questions that led to the reference to the Federal Court.
Have you had the chance to look at the matter since that time? We would like to get an update on the situation.
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Economic and Fiscal Analysis, Library of Parliament
To be able to conduct that study and to answer those questions, we needed detailed data. As I have already mentioned, it was not possible to do that study that would have allowed us to fully answer the questions you asked.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
If I may, I would like to add a comment.
That does not mean, however, that the matter of budget 2012 and the information we asked for is off our radar. We are continuing to work on it with our parliamentary partners, with the Information Commissioner and by continuing our discussions.
You will remember that the last time I appeared before the committee, last October, I talked about my parliamentary approach. The approach has to be parliamentary. This is about a situation that has to be solved at parliamentary level. What I still have to do now is meet with the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament. I have talked to the chair, to the clerk and to others. The joint committee has the right to ask for documents and to summon witnesses. This committee also has the right to do that. My approach is to do it through the joint committee because both Houses are represented on it.
Believe me, I have not given up on the principle or on the idea of getting the data on budget 2012, even though it is two years old now.
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
Chair, will I have my full time, or am I splitting with Mr. Van Kesteren?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
There are two more rounds. There's your round and then Mr. Van Kesteren's, but I would like a little time, so if the two of you would be so kind....
Conservative
Conservative
Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
I would like to refer you to a recent study that was done by the Luxembourg income study database, which was reported in The New York Times. Based on 35 years of surveys, it now claims that notwithstanding what opposition parties in this House of Commons have said, the median income of the Canadian middle class has surpassed that of the United States. Would that not speak to the fact that what the opposition is proposing in their putative policy solutions to economic challenges that perhaps our country faces or may face in the future boil down to balderdash? Can you comment on that?
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Economic and Fiscal Analysis, Library of Parliament
Again, sir, this is a matter of policy, which we do not comment on.
I think one thing one needs to always be careful about is the time frame that they use for these kinds of studies. It is true that the median income in Canada has been increasing since the mid-1990s essentially, but that is after a significant drop in the median income from the early 1980s to the mid-1990s, and you're still catching up, essentially. I don't think we have reached the level that we had in 1980.
