Finance Committee on Nov. 19th, 2013

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Most of my questions will be for M. Girard.

Of course, the issue of the Champlain Bridge is crucial. We are talking about 160,000 cars a day. The value of the products that transit over the Champlain Bridge is approximately $20 billion a year. It has been estimated, I believe, that the value of goods crossing the Champlain Bridge represents approximately 15% to 20% of the Quebec GDP.

I found it interesting that in one of the recommendations in your presentation, you suggested that the federal government work in close cooperation with the Government of Quebec. According to the Minister of Transport, Mr. Lebel, this has already been going on and there have been several dozen meetings.

Are such intense negotiations really going on, or do you have another impression?

What is the problem currently, in your opinion, with negotiations between Quebec and Ottawa?

[Nicolas Girard]

The position we defend is the one agreed to by all of the partners of the Bureau des partenaires-Pont Champlain. This group is comprised of elected representatives from the South Shore of Montreal, as well as representatives of the Government of Quebec. We are talking about replacing a bridge. As you will have noted over the past few days, one lane of the Champlain Bridge is closed. The new bridge will only come on stream in eight years. Currently, one out of two trips over this bridge is done using public transit. We feel it is essential that the new bridge have a light rail transit system. We think that the federal government must contribute to the funding of the LRT.

Up till now, Minister Lebel has not said that he would agree to the Government of Quebec's request for a contribution from the “merit-based fund”. This fund contains $4 billion and the Government of Quebec is asking for $1 billion to fund this new infrastructure. Up to 100,000 people a day use the bridge. As you know, traffic congestion has a major impact on the economy of the greater metropolitan area. I am convinced that the LRT would reduce traffic congestion, but in order for this to happen, the federal government must contribute to this project which is crucial for our region, whether we are talking about the South Shore or Montreal.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Some studies have indicated—I don't know if they were done by the Government of Quebec or the engineering firm—that the federal government would require a toll, and that, in other words, without this toll, there would be no bridge.

[Nicolas Girard]

Indeed.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

However, assessments show that for the bridge to be profitable, the toll would have to be set at $5 to $7 per trip, which is enormous given that this is not a new component, but a bridge which would replace an old and obsolete infrastructure.

[Nicolas Girard]

Correct.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Is this figure of $5 to $7 accurate, and if so, what will be the impact of this toll on transportation as a whole? I'm thinking of the other two bridges, in particular.

[Nicolas Girard]

Yes, we are talking about $5 to $7. That is what we have been hearing. That will have a major impact on the other bridges. Motorists may well take the Jacques-Cartier or Victoria bridges instead, and, in some cases, the Honoré-Mercier Bridge. The minister said that $7 would not be enough to fund the new infrastructure. We cannot picture a new bridge in Montreal without a comprehensive vision of traffic flow. You cannot have a toll on just one bridge. That would have a significant impact on traffic congestion.

In addition, we are talking about a toll that will not be used for public transit at all. It would only be used to pay for the infrastructure. Imagine the predicament of the greater Montreal area. A bridge has to be replaced prematurely because of its run-down state, but Minister Lebel is not committed to providing funding for public transit. You cannot look at mobility in Montreal from the perspective of highway traffic only. Public transit must be included. There are not thousands of solutions to reduce traffic congestion. The answer is public transit. The world's great cities have managed to reduce their traffic congestion by heavily investing in public transit.

l think the federal government has made significant investments in public transit in Toronto and Vancouver. If that works for Toronto and Vancouver, it should also work for Montreal.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

In 2011, a survey was distributed to the residents of Montreal and the south shore. The results showed that, if the new Champlain Bridge was the only bridge with a toll, 26% of Montrealers and 36% of the south shore residents would not use that bridge. Instead, they would use the other two bridges, which are already congested.

[Nicolas Girard]

That is a good analysis. Many south shore mayors are worried about the impact on the other bridges. We must find a long-term solution, respecting the municipal jurisdictions of the greater Montreal area and the position of the Quebec government. The municipalities as a whole and the Government of Quebec are in unison on the Champlain Bridge, the light rail transit system and the toll. I think the federal government, Mr. Lebel in particular, must recognize their position.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Caron.

We'll go to Mr. Adler, please.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

I have a couple of questions for Dr. McLellan. I read your submission with great interest and what you're proposing is absolutely fascinating and groundbreaking. Could you talk about the significance and important of having this brain science centre within the setting of a hospital?

[Dr. Barry McLellan]

The true benefit is bringing together the providers of care, doctors and other professionals, with the researchers and a spectrum of patients that include all brain sciences—those with diseases of the mind that may be cared for by psychiatrists, and stroke patients that may be cared for by neurologists, and those with brain tumours that may be treated by neurosurgeons—and bringing them together in an organization that has all the services to care for all of those patients with the synergy that comes from having people working together in the same building under the same roof. Not only do we get the best quality of care but we also get the best academic productivity.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

So it's really breaking down all the silos of the various medical disciplines and having them all operate hand-in-glove?

[Dr. Barry McLellan]

That's correct. It's based at the end of the day on the best outcome for the patients.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Our government has spent a lot of money on research, hundreds of millions of dollars. Is it time now to leverage the money we've spent on research and move it to the next level? In a sense that is what you are proposing in creating this brain science centre within a hospital setting, but also leveraging this national network of brain research facilities that already exist. Is that correct?

[Dr. Barry McLellan]

That's correct. There's already been a significant investment made in brain sciences. This is bringing it all together under one roof and ending up with the greatest productivity and, at the end of the day, the best outcomes.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

In terms of the stigma of mental health doesn't this go a long distance to breaking that down?

[Dr. Barry McLellan]

There's been a lot of progress made in recent years around the de-stigmatization of mental illness. This takes it to the top level where you basically have all patients with diseases of the brain and mind being cared for, many on an outpatient basis, in the same facility.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I've been to Sunnybrook Hospital on a tour. You're doing this right now. You're operating in this fashion. The $30 million being asked of the federal government would be to build a new facility because, from what I can see, the current facility is wholly inadequate. Is that correct?

[Dr. Barry McLellan]

I don't disagree with your assessment. What we have really had to this point in time is the lack of a purpose-built space. This would be a purpose-built space.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

This would draw experts from all over the world I would suspect. It's a hub if you will.

[Dr. Barry McLellan]

We're very fortunate in that we have many of those experts right now. What this is going to allow us to do is retain and attract even more expertise.

[Mark Adler, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

And there'll be a huge economic generator for the region.

[Dr. Barry McLellan]

Absolutely.

We've spoken perhaps slightly more about the clinical care side. The spinoff of high-quality research, including commercialization and the jobs that come from that, would be enormous.