Evidence of meeting #124 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was important.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
On the voted appropriations, there's a $30-million line item saying, “Funding for a grant to the Government of Alberta to support provincial actions that will stimulate economic activity and employment in Alberta’s resource sector (Budget 2017)”.
My understanding is that this is going toward a Government of Alberta loan project for orphan well remediation. Is that correct?
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
It was all just a question. For the funding, the $30 million that is being handed over to the Government of Alberta, it says, “to support provincial actions that will stimulate economic activity and employment in Alberta’s resource sector (Budget 2017)”.
Is that going toward the loan program that the Government of Alberta is running to remediate orphan wells?
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
It's $30 million to remediate. There are probably billions of dollars in liabilities. How many jobs did you expect this to create?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
That, of course, is not something that we did analysis on. This was something we worked on with the Alberta government so that they could move forward on the remediation of these wells in a way that would enhance employment, yes, but would also get at an issue that is particularly challenging in Alberta.
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
Did Alberta tell you that $30 million is what they needed from the federal government?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I think what's clear in this case is that Alberta has a long-term challenge in remediating these wells. What's also clear is that Alberta and, of course all of us, want to make sure that we have good employment outcomes in Alberta, so we—
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
Pardon, Minister, that's not clear. Sorry, forgive me.
I asked whether the $30 million being assigned here in this appropriation was a direct request of the Government of Alberta, or if it was something the federal government officials here determined would be the correct amount to give. It wasn't clear from your answer. Yes or no, did the Government of Alberta ask for this $30 million specifically?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We worked with Alberta. I can't tell you that I know the exact exchange, but of course, their request was for these funds in order to help remediate the wells in Alberta.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
It was some sum of money, you're not sure what, and your department came to $30 million at some point.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I'm quite sure it's $30 million, and I'm quite sure that we worked with Alberta. I'm quite sure that our goal was both to help remediate the wells and have a positive impact on employment in Alberta.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
One of the reasons Alberta has so many more wells to now remediate is because of actions by your government that put businesses out of work. They put energy workers out of work, and then they returned the energy leases with these orphan wells on their properties. When you go after the energy sector, you cause the problem, and you make it worse.
Alberta's always having orphan well issues, and you've made them worse over the last few years. The $30 million doesn't compensate for the loss of energy east pipeline jobs, 14,000 jobs there. It doesn't compensate for the Pacific NorthWest LNG project in B.C. It doesn't compensate for the jobs that would have been created through a northern gateway.
The $30 million is a drop in the bucket, which is why I'm asking the question. Who came to the determination that $30 million is the right amount? I'm still not getting an answer, whether it was the federal government that decided this was all that you could spare, even though Alberta gives you $18 billion in equalization transfers, or whether it was the Government of Alberta.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We will continue to work with Alberta, as we do with all provinces, in order to make sure that our country is successful. I think the impact of the work that we've done for Canada, for Alberta, has been positive. We recognize the challenges faced by Alberta as a result of changes in global commodity prices that are significant. We will continue to find ways, not only to advance the cause of the oil and gas sector in Alberta but also to broadly advance the cause of Albertans.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
Minister, I was sent here by my constituents to deal specifically with things like estimates. No other job here in Canada deals with something like estimates in Parliament. It's the most fundamental job of a parliamentarian. I am asking you about this $30 million that you're asking us to approve. Who decided on this $30 million? Was it the Government of Alberta or the Government of Canada?
You've said that you're collaborating, you're working with them, and that you'll continue to work with them. I'm sure you will, but I'm asking you specifically about this amount of money. Who decided on the $30 million? Was it the Government of Alberta or was it the Government of Canada?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We're doing the supplementary estimates for the Government of Canada, so we are deciding to approve the Government of Canada supplementary estimates, which means that this is our conclusion of the $30 million. It was, of course, through a process of discussion on how we could best have a positive impact on Alberta. We're pleased to have it go forward with this.
Liberal
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister, in our supplementary estimates for 2017-18, some funding, I think about $300 million, was put in there for provincial governments for home care services and mental health services. I know that my colleague referred to this. In that allocation and in the allocations to come for mental health, how important is it for our government to assist those in Canada, considering the incidence rate of people suffering from mental health issues?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We think it's very important. We have worked together with the provinces on this issue. I know that the previous Minister of Health worked to get the priorities of the provinces aligned around mental health, and I know that the current Minister of Health is working to assure that we have a continued level of collaboration on this issue. Obviously, by earmarking funds directly for mental health, we think that we not only assure that the money goes in that direction but we provide an impetus for all of the provincial and territorial governments to look at mental health as being important in their jurisdictions.
The incidence of mental health challenges is increasing as a function of both our changing economy and the reduction in stigma. One way or another, demand is increasing. This is allowing us to get at something that is important to improve people's health and is also important for the long-term health of our economy, which is why it's important in this context.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Minister.
As a new MP, I have one final comment. It's about understanding the budgeting process and the estimates process. It's about our government's desire and process for transparency and allowing MPs to fully understand. It's great to see the alignment between the budget and the main estimates that the Treasury Board Secretariat has put forward.
Would you or Mr. Rochon want to talk about that and about how that will improve the process for parliamentarians to understand the 2018 budget process?
Deputy Minister, Department of Finance
I'm happy to do so.
The objective is to have in the main estimates as many budget measures, and potentially all, that should be in the main estimates this year. The process we will use is essentially to delay the main estimates by approximately a month. In budget implementation act two, we're asking for authorities to ensure that departments can continue to contract and have the certainty that they can continue to contract for the time period that's involved between the start of the fiscal year and the tabling of the main estimates.
In principle, aligning the two should give parliamentarians a more complete line of sight on the government's fiscal plan as it breaks down by department and by program.
