Evidence of meeting #134 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
You said “civilianize”, so are you then converting positions that used to be manned by an RCMP officer into civilian positions to do the investigating?
A/Commr Joanne Crampton
I'm sorry, I mean in terms of investigations and having more civilian contributions within investigations.
Conservative
Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB
Okay.
FINTRAC has been mentioned a bunch of times and I know that it's one of the key components to all of this. I think it was Madam Henderson who said it was a key partner, but what else is used? What else is out there outside of just FINTRAC that serves as a method of identifying money laundering operations? Is it just FINTRAC? Is that really the only means of identifying financial fraud and financial transactions that could be leads in money laundering cases?
Director General, Policy and Foreign Relations, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Thank you for the question.
Yes, FINTRAC is very important for us, but we only look at terrorist financing. We're not engaged in money laundering and it's one lead. When we're out, there are numerous tools that we would use in our tool box to try to gather information when we're looking at a terrorism case. Definitely terrorist financing is one aspect of that, and FINTRAC is an important partner there.
Conservative
Director General, Policy and Foreign Relations, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Sorry, for operational reasons I don't want to get into that, but I will tell you that FINTRAC is very important to us.
February 26th, 2018 / 4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, everybody, and thank you for your comments thus far.
I'm trying to think about where I want to start. At our last session, I referenced The Globe and Mail and will do it again today because they seem to be doing all the work. This time it's with regard to the sale of fentanyl and its proceeds being recycled into the B.C. real estate market, which has obviously gotten the attention of the attorney general. They lay out the steps in doing it.
I'm assuming that everybody is aware of that issue. It may not impact, say, CBSA directly. But what tools are we lacking that would stop these individuals selling something that we know kills people in Canada, and putting those proceeds back into the Canadian real estate market, which is obviously not a good thing for middle-class Canadians trying to buy their own home? I can't think of one good thing about it, actually.
What tools are we lacking in order to stop this?
Could we have just a few seconds each, please?
Liberal
A/Commr Joanne Crampton
With regard to fentanyl, I think that applies to all sorts of crimes, whether it's any other type of drug, or human trafficking. Any crime someone is going to make money from, which accounts for the vast majority of crimes, is susceptible to money laundering.
The real estate market is certainly an area where money can be laundered, so I think it doesn't just apply to fentanyl. I believe it applies to all sorts of crimes.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Would beneficial ownership information be helpful in this case?
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Okay.
Is there anything specific? I don't want the long answer. I want the specific answer, and from anyone else, please.
Director General, Traveller Program Directorate, Canada Border Services Agency
Our main concern is stopping the flow of fentanyl into Canada. We have a comprehensive strategy for this, but once these proceeds come into another domain, that falls outside of our responsibility.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I have a follow-up question. In reviewing all the documents we've been provided, Canada underwent an FATF peer review in 2015, which was published in September 2016. Some of the recommendations about strengthening our AML/ATF framework are as follows—if I can just read them, it might be easiest:
...could be strengthened by expanding the scope of the legislation to cover finance and leasing companies as well as unregulated mortgage lenders, and to apply new obligations to the designated non-financial businesses and professions sector in relation to politically exposed persons (PEPs), heads of international organizations and beneficial ownership information requirements.
Now we know the Minister of Finance, along with his provincial counterparts, in December of 2017 came up with a framework to look at beneficial ownership, so we are working on that.
The other comment they had was, “The regulation of bulk cash transfers and of certain activities of lawyers and accountants and enhanced access to beneficial ownership information would assist in this pursuit.”
I'll put this as a general question. Out of these recommendations that were reported out of the FATF peer review process, which we are obviously a core member of, what would you recommend as the most important or most effective aspect we could look at as soon as possible that would make a dent in money laundering and any associated terrorist financing activities in Canada?
Director General, National Security Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
I'm not sure why my light went on.
A/Commr Joanne Crampton
I'm sorry, I wouldn't be able to rank order them. They're all of significance and all important recommendations.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
If I could just come in here for a second, Francesco.... If you look at the FATF recommendations—and you folks are saying we need to look at the U.K. and the U.S.—do we have greater difficulties doing some things for some reason in Canada, either because of our privacy laws or the charter or whatever? How do we find a balance, or does nobody dare answer that question?
Francesco.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Those are my two main questions for the day. Obviously, Chair, there's an issue with money laundering when it comes to the real estate market, and there seem to be some tools lacking. From my humble understanding thus far, the beneficial ownership disclosure—without impinging on any rights of lawyers—would be one big first step on that avenue. Is that a correct understanding?
Liberal