Evidence of meeting #139 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was debt.
A video is available from Parliament.
6 p.m.
Conservative
6 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
—in November 2015 when they got a new government. They are likely very pleased to see that we are in a much better position to be resilient to face any economic challenge that we face.
6 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Minister, the reality is that you are adding debt at twice the rate you promised. You said that you would balance the budget next year. Now you're not even capable of telling the Canadian people how much additional debt your plan would add over the next quarter century of deficits that you've set us on track to run as a country.
At this point, are you prepared to admit you had no intention of keeping your promise to the Canadian people in 2015 when you promised the budget would be balanced next year?
6 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
It's a challenge when someone hasn't had experience in managing a balance sheet or, in fact, in managing anything of any substance. However, what I can tell you is that we found that the best way for us to manage our economy is to reduce our debt as a function of the economy over time. What we're seeing is that over the five-year span, we've actually reduced the debt as a function of our economy and will continue to do so, putting us in a resilient place to deal with any economic challenge.
The good news is that we are in a strong position. We continue to be fiscally responsible, and the government as a function of the economy is staying constant. That is a place where Canadians understand that we are focused on their interests in making sure our economy is stronger over time.
March 26th, 2018 / 6 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Welcome, Finance Minister.
Minister, our record for the last two and a half years speaks for itself, and I would say it's a great record. As you said, we have the lowest unemployment rate in 40 years; hundreds of thousands of new jobs have been created; and the Canada child benefit is lifting literally tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty. In my riding of Vaughan—Woodbridge, it delivered $60 million of funds to families that needed it. Thank you for indexing the Canada child benefit and doing it two years ahead of schedule, because that's going to continue to benefit families in my riding, and they can use that to pay for their kids' sports activities, save for their kids' future, and maybe pay for some hockey, soccer, or ballet lessons.
In the riding that I'm blessed and privileged to represent, we're blessed with a number of what I would call barometers. We have the busiest intermodal facility in the country—the Canada Pacific intermodal facility. CN rail has its largest facility in the country there. Recently the Prime Minister joined UPS Canada in the announcement of their $500 million investment, and that facility is located in the city of Vaughan. The Home Depot distribution centre for all of eastern Canada is located there. We also have Martinrea and Magna in the York region. We want to continue to make sure that our investment competitiveness is maintained, and that these companies that are making these announcements, including UPS, continue to choose Canada, as many companies are, to invest in with their people and organizations.
I want to hear your thoughts—and I can bring back these thoughts to the riding and constituents that I represent—about how we're going to continue maintaining Canada's attractiveness to international companies and domestic companies, of course, to invest.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
This is a very important question. I can tell you that having had the opportunity to go across Canada after the presentation of the budget, I heard many things from businesses that were considering investments. I heard that in many cases people were challenged to find workers. We have a situation in which employment has gone down, so finding and keeping good workers is a challenge. I also heard about businesses that were concerned about our long-term competitive environment. The good news is that we are in a positive economic situation to deal with challenges that we're presented with.
However, there are also real challenges that we have to consider. In the current environment, we are obviously renegotiating NAFTA, which presents some uncertainty for businesses. We have changing tax rates in the United States, which present people with business investment differences as they consider those changed tax rates. We also have global trading changes that are going on. We need to consider that changed competitive environment.
I will tell you that right now we're making sure we understand the impact of those tax changes so as to ensure that we stay competitive. We're fighting hard on behalf of Canada at the NAFTA table to get to a better arrangement for all three parties. We're also looking carefully to make sure that we stay competitive. I will be taking time over the course of the next number of months to listen to Canadians and Canadian business leaders to understand how these changes are impacting them.
I can tell you that as we go out of the country, we continue to find a huge appetite for Canadian investment. We have great people in the country and a highly educated workforce. We have great resources, and we have a stable political system that creates long-term comfort for investors. It's a positive place from which we start, and we are committed to maintaining that continuing competitiveness by looking at all those aspects of importance for businesses as they make investments.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I would like to touch upon budget 2018 in terms of its reference to gender. To personalize it, I have two young, precocious daughters at home who are the love of our life for my wife and me. I've told you this personally, and I have thanked you for making their future brighter. I say that with all sincerity, Minister, because what we did in our budget is something I'm proud of. I'm proud of being part of a government with that as its focus. I would re-emphasize just how important it is for our economy that women specifically experience the increase in labour force participation rates, equal pay for equal work, etc. If you can just close it off and provide your thoughts, that would be great, because I'm very proud of our budget and its focus on making sure that those gaps are reduced.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Well, we're certainly pleased with what we've put in the budget, but we realize there's always more work to be done in this and every other area. We know that if we create opportunities for young women to be successful in all fields of endeavour, and if they have role models in those places, we're more likely to see long-term success. We're laying the groundwork for the next government and the government after that to have increasing success in this area.
Certainly, we will be monitoring what we've done to make sure that it's actually having the kind of impact we want it to have. For example, this year we put more money together for women entrepreneurs. Even though we'd already put significant funds into this area over the last couple of years, we constantly consider if we have to refresh our approaches in order to have a continued and lasting impact. We're proud of this as well, but, again, there's more to do.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Thank you, Minister, for being here today.
Minister, there is a growing perception, not just around our country, but definitely in the Okanagan and throughout my riding, that the government does not have a firm grasp on its expenses. People feel that you're spending a lot of money in a lot of different areas and it is adding to the debt.
I'm sure that reasonable people can agree that some of this may be good, but when people see extravagances and excesses, I would hope you'd agree, this is not good for anyone, because we need to have faith in our institutions, which are supposed to be spending this money correctly and with all prudence.
I have to say, I'm slightly alarmed that you won't even utter the words, “balanced budget”. It's almost like these are dirty words for you. Previous Liberal and Conservative finance ministers would work very hard to be able to say to the people's representatives that they had succeeded, or at least that they had worked towards a balanced budget. It worries me. I will say, Minister, that this may not concern you, but I tell you what, there are people in this country who are getting concerned because you will not even say to the people's representatives when you will turn in a balanced budget or how much money you're going to be putting us into debt. None of this causes confidence.
Minister, I spoke with a pensioner from the Okanagan. Her name is Donna. Donna's quite concerned about her grandchildren inheriting a lot of debt—debt that mainly is being applied, not during a war, not during a recession, but for ideological reasons and contrary to certain promises. Donna has given me a cheque written out of her own pocket. She's estimated the consumer price index on her old age security, and she has said that she wants to see it go towards the debt and not towards other spending.
Minister, will you, first, accept this cheque, and second, ensure that it goes entirely towards paying down the debt and not towards other spending?
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Let me first address the context of your question. We believe that our budget has struck the right balance. We continue to believe that Canadians, when they made a choice in 2015, made the right choice.
I appreciate that you want us to go back to doing things the way that the Conservative government before us did—to focus on one number and to do so in a way that, unfortunately, would lead us to a really bad outcome. What we found with the previous approach was that we had really bad unemployment and we had much lower growth. Our approach—which has been to focus on responsibly investing in Canadians, to growing the economy, and to getting more people working—is working.
As you go out around your riding, I know you'll find that more people are working, because that's just statistically what's happening in this country. When we find that policies are working, I think we need to embrace them. As patriotic Canadians, I hope that even the people in the Conservative party would say that they are pleased when the economy is doing well.
The economy is doing well. The approach we've taken is working, and we're doing it while reducing the size of the federal debt as a function of GDP. We're doing this in a gradual way that really makes sense.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Minister, you have the distinct honour, or dishonour depending on your view.... Canadians, I absolutely agree, do not all share the same perspective as your government, but when you describe people as neanderthals and things like that, I have to say—
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Never mind. I think what I'm trying to say here, Minister, is when you do not listen to people and just respond from rote talking points, it really does not build faith in government.
Now, you are hitting a milestone in this coming year, $1 trillion in debt, something that no finance minister has had before, and all I hear again is—
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I will sum it up.
Will you tell the Canadian public when you plan to balance the budget?
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
I will say that with greater transparency comes some responsibility for people to look at it. When you talk about numbers like that, you're comparing the $150 billion of debt the previous government left us, that additional debt, with the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation balance sheet, which actually supports the mortgage market in our country. These are apples and oranges. I suspect, when you look at those numbers, you should understand what you're actually talking about. We're talking about a balance sheet of the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation that supports mortgage, we're talking about a balance sheet of the Business Development Bank of Canada that supports entrepreneurs, we're talking about a balance sheet of Economic Development Canada that supports exporters, and you're comparing them with the debt that Stephen Harper and the people to your right and the people to your left, as the previous government, left Canadians. These are not comparable. They're different things.
We will continue to be fiscally responsible. We'll continue to reduce the debt as a function of the GDP. We'll do it in a way that allows us to invest in Canadians and continue the very good situation we're in right now.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Mr. Minister, we'll have to end it right now.
I have three people who need to get on. I'm going to go to Mr. Grewal for one question, Mr. Kelly for one question, and Mr. McLeod, and if we have time we'll go back to Mr. Dusseault.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have four very small questions. I'm going to ask them all in one question.
Minister, since our government came into power, how many jobs have been created, what is the unemployment rate, how are we doing in terms of growth, and how are we doing in terms of the G7 nations?
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We, all of us in this room, as patriotic Canadians, have to feel good when we look at ourselves compared to other countries. We are in a situation where, to start with, our balance sheet is in a very good position. That means we're resilient. We have the lowest debt-to-GDP among G7 countries. It's not the lowest by a little bit, it's half the average, so it's a very good starting point.
We have an unemployment rate that's gone from 7.1%, back in the time we got into office, down to about 5.8%, and about 600,000 new jobs have been created, which is the answer to your question. In a U.S. context that would be six million new jobs. These are big, big numbers, so this is very positive.
The growth rate we've seen over the last year and a half has been the fastest among G7 countries, about 3%.
We will, of course, face challenges going forward. We always will face challenges. But starting from a position like that, where more Canadians are working, where we have a great balance sheet, where we've seen the kind of growth that we've seen, allows us to deal with those challenges in a way that puts us in a favourable position, and I'm happy we're there.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I hate to cut you off, Mr. Minister. I know you have to be out of here at 6:20 p.m.
Mr. Kelly.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Thank you.
I have a quick question.
A cursory look at all of the other provincial and territorial current budgets reveals, in each case, either a date to return to balance, if they are not running a balanced budget already, or some kind of a plan and a target. Why are you the only finance minister in Canada who has no plan for a balanced budget and will not address the issue of a balanced budget in a 400-page budget document?