We're well over a couple of minutes.
Evidence of meeting #147 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #147 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.
A video is available from Parliament.
April 30th, 2018 / 4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for coming. Mr. Yussuff and Mr. Blakely, I want to ask about some comments. Either of you can jump in, or both, if you like.
In terms of the need to have...and you specifically mentioned women in trades, but I think the idea, in terms of this budget, is also to have, as my colleague Mr. McLeod pointed out, indigenous peoples entering the workforce in ways that haven't been done in the past.
I'll just read from a tweet that was sent out by the Conservative critic for Innovation, Science, and Economic Development. It's very concerning to me, given that's the mandate. In talking about Canada's competitiveness, he said, “...this government is more interested in pandering to the radical left with more taxpayers money thrown at gender, race and other 'intersectional identity' issues, than in ensuring our economy remains competitive.” My colleague Ms. Khera rightfully responded that leaving people behind is not the way to grow the economy.
I'm just curious, in and around—
4:40 p.m.
Canadian Operating Officer, Canada's Building Trades Unions
I do have a comment with respect to that.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Okay. I will get to my question.
In regard to that comment and specifically in trades, you talked about having more women in trades in particular. If we don't start making investments to actually break some of the cycle in terms of traditional employment, whether it's for women, indigenous peoples, or persons with disabilities, how will your industry grow? How will trades grow, and how will the economy grow without it?
4:40 p.m.
Canadian Operating Officer, Canada's Building Trades Unions
It simply won't. I'm a baby boomer. I know I look a lot younger than that. When I started, it was farm boys and the captain of the football team. We had a male-dominated business, and we had people lined up out the door to get in.
Every industry is now fishing in the same pool. The baby boom generation is leaving everywhere. If you look at the age pyramid, most developing countries have an age pyramid that is the opposite of ours; ours is inverted. It means that we won't get the number of people that we require to do the work if we don't have women, indigenous people, new Canadians, and get my kid out of the basement who is playing video games. That's what we have to do. Quite simply, it is in our economic interest to ensure that all Canadians who want a meaningful career get one.
4:40 p.m.
President, Canadian Labour Congress
The reality is that women represent 50% of the workforce today.
4:40 p.m.
President, Canadian Labour Congress
The reality is that if we're not going to address some of the systemic issues that have always plagued women's participation in the economy, we're not going to change the economy. Addressing systemic issues does take time. We're changing attitudes, changing approach as to how we do things. It's critical that you stay focused, because if you're simply going to play at the edges, then stop pretending that you're going to transform this country to give women a real opportunity.
Women's underperformance has nothing to do with their capacity to perform at the same level. The fact of the matter is that they work in similar occupations as men, yet they make that much less than men. Without proactive pay equity legislation, they will never achieve economic equality.
It also goes to the point that Bob is making in regard to getting them into non-traditional jobs. We have to say, of course, first of all, that you belong here, and secondly, we're going to support whatever is necessary for you to succeed. Simply opening the door for them to come in is not going to get them there. We have to change the culture, the attitudes, and the behaviour of the people they are working beside, and say, if you want to work here, we are going to assist you in succeeding. That takes time.
It's simply wrong to suggest that half the working population in this country does not deserve their government paying attention and spending resources on them. It's fundamental that we get this right, because if we do want to succeed, we're going to have to take the time and the effort. All Canadians, whether in business or the labour movement, all of us, have to labour at this much longer, otherwise we will not get the desired outcome we're hoping to have here.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I believe Ms. Gibson wants in, and then we'll get a final comment from Mr. Blakely.
Ms. Gibson.
4:40 p.m.
Director, Communications and Research, Canadians for Tax Fairness
It's important that while we're talking about women's participation in trades and more broadly in the economy, it ties back to the conversation we just had about income splitting. We're talking about a privileged boutique tax credit for a handful of wealthy when we should be talking about closing those loopholes and using that money to fund child care and program access for women that actually levels that playing field.
We lack the resources to fund the programs that women need to be able to access properly. In the trades sector, we all know some of those hours are long. The shifts can be all over the map and locations. If you have children, that becomes very challenging. Those barriers can only be tackled if we actually close loopholes and get the resources to fund those programs.
4:45 p.m.
Canadian Operating Officer, Canada's Building Trades Unions
We've been spending a lot of time and money on trying to develop respect in our workplaces. Sometimes people think we're rough, tough, mean, and smell bad in our workplaces, and to some degree that's true, but we're going to change the culture.
For things such as child care, lo and behold, there's actually money in a number of places to do things such as having day care at a big construction site. It isn't just for women; there are some single dads, too, who really are strapped.
We can make this work better and get people into great, well-paying jobs. This is not gender mumbo-jumbo. This is getting enough people to be able to effectively build Canada.
4:45 p.m.
Emily Norgang Senior Researcher, Canadian Labour Congress
Thank you.
To build on the points by my colleagues about women being underrepresented in the trades, it's very linked to apprenticeship as well. Right now only 14% of apprentices are women. It drops to four per cent when you exclude hairstyling and others. It's four per cent in construction and trades. They're extremely underrepresented. This is not just entering women entering apprenticeships, but also completing them. As Mr. Blakely pointed out, completion rates are extremely low. We're about 56% in Canada. This compares to about 79% in France, 80% in Germany, 79% in Switzerland. So comparatively, we need to increase apprenticeship completion rates.
As our colleagues at Canadians for Tax Fairness pointed out, for women this has a lot to do with universal child care, and equal pay provisions for part-time and temporary work as well, then linking back to our previous comments about the CPP's drop-out provisions, and making sure that women aren't penalized on these various levels.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
In numerous provinces across the country, the marginal effective tax rates on people with disabilities who get jobs and increase their income approaches 100%. Sometimes it exceeds 100%. That only includes the cash cost of work.
By cash cost of work I mean you add up the taxes and the clawbacks that someone pays on their next $1,000 of earnings, and they often lose $1,000 or more. Then on top of that they can lose access to housing, drug benefits, other in-kind support.
The monetary and non-monetary loss to a person for adding $1,000 to their income can be well over $1,000. In other words, people are working for a negative wage. They have effective tax rates of well over 100% at certain income levels in certain provinces.
Do you agree this is a problem that is holding back people who are on disability support programs? Any of the witnesses can comment on that.
4:45 p.m.
President, Canadian Labour Congress
We can do much to help folks on disability to ensure that they're not living in poverty in this country.
A large part of it is to get them to participate in the workforce in the first place. Most of the time they're not getting hired. Anything we can do to enhance their participation in the workforce is a positive, because they then become less dependent on society.
We know that most people on disability want to work. In every survey we have done, most say they want to work.
4:45 p.m.
Vice-President, Taxation, Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada
I don't have any specific answers, but I think it ties into our feeling that it's important to do a tax review.
Part of it would be to do a review of all the tax expenditures, the tax benefits, to make sure they're meeting their goals, that the program is working properly and isn't causing issues, such as people not joining the workforce—that sort of thing. That would be an important part of the review.
