Finance Committee on Oct. 1st, 2018

[A voice]

No question.

[Blair Corkum]

I'm sorry. I didn't realize the question was coming to me.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

In the tax changes that were proposed and will be coming into force, we still have this so-called reasonableness test. Do you also think that it's invasive and impractical?

[Blair Corkum]

Actually, I do not. I don't think it's invasive and impractical, but I do think it misses an important piece.

When I grew up, my father was self-employed, and I didn't see my father a lot of the time—I worked with him a lot, too. The whole family is affected.

My response to those proposals was that there should be a de minimis amount that can be shared among family members regardless of participation in the business. I've been in business for 40 years. There are reasonableness tests already there. I'm not as strong an opponent, but I still don't believe that the new legislation meets the mark.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Would you recommend, then, that this be addressed and rescinded in this budget, perhaps?

[Blair Corkum]

I agree 100% that it needs to be at least changed.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

I'll move now to you, Ms. Walsh-McGuire. Budget 2018 was almost 400 pages long, if I remember correctly that book that came out, and it didn't contain any date for a return to balance, which you've noted in your opening remarks.

I'd like you to share with the committee further why it's important that there at least be some type of plan for a balanced budget. Every province and territory has some type of a plan for a balanced budget, even if they do not presently have one.

Go ahead.

[Penny Walsh-McGuire]

Clearly, we understand that government must identify many pressures and priorities when developing a budget. We certainly cited concerns with a projected deficit of over $18 billion in the 2018 budget and the lack of planning to get to balance. I think there is a concern. As we've seen over the last year, we need to be in the mindset that when times are good government should be looking for ways to address the country's growing deficit, not add to it.

We recently returned from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce resolutions debate in our national meetings. There was a good debate and a good discussion about what debt-to-GDP ratio our country should be striving for. I don't know if anyone knows, but I think it's nearly 90% right now. I wouldn't be one to specify or dictate what that should be. I don't even know that it was clarified at our meetings, but I think a debt-to-GDP ratio needs to be identified for our country that allows us to prepare for headwinds, uncertainty and challenging times that could be ahead. We certainly hope not, but they could be ahead.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

Are there any further comments from your members on the tax changes for private corporations?

[Penny Walsh-McGuire]

We certainly followed that process very carefully as it unfolded. As Jennifer, our president, mentioned, reasonableness has to fill the lack of clarity for our members. One thing that we hear around our table is that we want to have open dialogue with government and not be hosting town halls across the country about tax changes. That's not where we want to be in terms of an open and collaborative dialogue. It was uncertain times for business and small business, and that's not where we want to be.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You have time for a quick question.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Perhaps one last word on the carbon tax. You talked about revenue neutrality, and certainly increasing a tax at the provincial level is not revenue neutrality. I'll let you elaborate further on your thoughts.

[Penny Walsh-McGuire]

We understand that the Province of P.E.I. has submitted a detailed climate change action plan to the federal government as of the September 1 deadline, aimed at addressing the responsibility that we all hold in combatting climate change. The plan has not been made public. We've been in contact with the provincial government to try to get an understanding of what that made-in-P.E.I. solution is. Although we're not privy to the details, we would be supportive of a plan that's fully costed and fiscally responsible and that would certainly meet emissions targets.

I know that if a federal carbon price is to be applied, it will not inhibit our competitiveness as a country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, all.

Peter Julian, go ahead.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses. The testimony we have just heard is truly informative.

Mr. Gander and Mr. Walters, thank you very much. I do not have any questions for you—unfortunately I don't have the time—, but I completely agree with what you said. It is certainly desirable and welcome.

Mr. Doyle and Madam Masuda, konnichiwa.

I represent the area of British Columbia that has the highest concentration of Japanese Canadians, and that's where the Nikkei centre and the Japanese-Canadian cultural archives are found. It's also the area that has the greatest concentration of Japanese language programs.

To what extent have you been in contact with the Nikkei centre to recruit people who speak Japanese and English and would be able to help build your business? To what extent are you contributing to the P.E.I. economy? What's the dollar value generated every year from tourism coming from Japan?

[Kelly Doyle]

I'm sorry. I'm not prepared with exact figures.

[Katsue Masuda, PEI Select Tours Inc.]

Well, for the Nikkei centre, or for any Japanese community in Vancouver or the B.C. area, and actually for tour companies all over Canada, we are struggling for the workers, the tour guides. We do have a job fair and so on within the Japanese community, too. For us to go and visit Vancouver for a day to join a job fair is really costly and difficult. We actually didn't go, but we have an associate company in the Vancouver area, so we always send the word if anybody wants to work with us in P.E.I. It's really hard. In the B.C. area, they have 12 months of the year of employment. Actually, we had an inquiry from an experienced guide, a landed immigrant from B.C., but we had only six months, so they turned it down. It's really difficult to attract a landed immigrant from the B.C. area or Toronto. We do have job advertisements on Japanese community tourism boards on the Internet and so on, but it is really difficult.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you for that. Maybe we can talk offline afterwards. I think that may be a partial solution to the problem you've raised, though I don't discount the overall issues around the temporary foreign worker program. It's a real problem. Thank you for that.

I'll go to Mr. Schut. I thought your figures were quite compelling. If I understood correctly, you said there's a 59% annualized turnover rate in drivers.

[Mike Schut]

That is correct, yes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Oh, wow. That's astounding. It's very difficult to continue with a business when you have that high a turnover rate.

I personally believe that the temporary foreign worker program needs to be overhauled, and we need to be looking to give immigrants who have skills that meet the skill shortages that we have in Canada the ability to come to Canada. If they're good enough to work in Canada, they should be good enough to live in Canada, bring their families, and settle in Canada, in places like Charlottetown in Prince Edward Island.

Would you recommend to us, as part of our report, to really advocate for a complete overhaul of the temporary foreign worker program, to the extent that it's actually more a skilled immigrant program, so that people can come to Canada and set down roots here?

[Mike Schut]

There definitely needs to be a review of the temporary foreign worker program. The bottlenecks that are created now in the process are just astounding. We probably do about two or three applications a year for 25 unnamed positions. While the payment from us is received generally in less than five business days, the actual approval can take up to six or seven weeks to come through. Once that approval comes through, what we're experiencing now is upwards of three additional weeks to actually have a name placed on the LMIA to allow that person to come into Canada. These bottlenecks cost money. There definitely needs to be an overhaul to it.

We are fortunate enough to be able to apply under the low-skill/high-wage category, which does assist in the application process. I believe that process came into effect about two years ago, with the last overhaul of the program. Yes, there definitely needs to be a change.

There is a need for temporary foreign workers in Canada, low-skill and high-skill; it doesn't matter. There is a definite need within Canada for all of them. My primary focus is the truck drivers, obviously.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Yes, I understand. I guess I'm suggesting that when we're looking at long-term jobs, we could actually look at a program that, as we did generations ago, welcomes immigrants to Canada not as temporary foreign workers, but actually as being able to set down roots.

For example, you mentioned an employee, your second TFW, who's worked with you for 13 years. When was he actually able to become a Canadian citizen, or is he still on the TFW?

[Mike Schut]

No, he is a permanent resident. He renews his permanent resident card every five or seven years. I'm not sure which it is; I think it's five years.