Evidence of meeting #170 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pei.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Peter Fragiskatos  London North Centre, Lib.
Leona Alleslev  Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC
Karen Clare  Volunteer, PEI Home and School Federation
Shirley Pierce  Advocacy Officer, Prince Edward Island, National Association of Federal Retirees
Deborah Calviello  As an Individual
Mike Durant  As an Individual
Blair Corkum  President, Blair Corkum Financial Planning Inc.
Mike Schut  Vice-President, Administration and Human Resources, Bulk Carriers PEI Limited
Jennifer Evans  President, Greater Charlottetown Area Chamber of Commerce
Penny Walsh-McGuire  Chief Executive Officer, Greater Charlottetown Area Chamber of Commerce
Barry Gander  Co-Founder, i-Valley
Tony Walters  Vice-President, i-Valley
Kelly Doyle  President, PEI Select Tours Inc.
Katsue Masuda  PEI Select Tours Inc.
Tyson Kelly  Vice-President, Sales and Logistics, Bulk Carriers PEI Limited
Robert Ghiz  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Wireless Telecommunications Association
Andrew Lawless  Board Member, East Prince Agri-Environment Association
Reg Phelan  National Board Member, National Farmers Union
Brenda Simmons  Assistant General Manager, Prince Edward Island Potato Board
Arnold Croken  Chief Executive Officer, Summerside Port Corporation Inc.
Colin Jeffrey  Director, Trout River Environmental Committee Inc.
Douglas Campbell  District Director, Prince Edward Island, National Farmers Union
Iker Zulbaran  Member, University of Prince Edward Island Chapter, Engineers Without Borders Canada
Mary Cowper-Smith  As an Individual
Stuart Hickox  As an Individual

10:15 a.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

That's fair enough.

Could you give me an impression of how much of an economic impact NAFTA has on P.E.I.?

10:15 a.m.

President, Greater Charlottetown Area Chamber of Commerce

Jennifer Evans

Oh, it's absolutely huge. Our primary industries are export markets, and the United States is our primary trade partner. Even though we may be a very small province, trade is a huge concern for us. We heard loud and clear from our members the level of concern, so I think we are certainly representing our members today by saying that everyone's feeling a little better about the fact that we've gotten this far.

10:15 a.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

How much focus, then, have you and P.E.I. put on leveraging this new CETA agreement? Do you feel you're getting the appropriate support from the federal government and through ACOA to be able to start to diversify?

10:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Greater Charlottetown Area Chamber of Commerce

Penny Walsh-McGuire

We have, obviously, been focused on what is happening south of the border. To answer your question, in 2017 P.E.I.'s exports to the U.S. were $1 billion, so it's significant for our province and our economy.

In terms of CETA and the Pacific trade agreement, I have a couple of things to build on what Jennifer said before. We work closely with EDC. We work closely with our provincial and federal trade partnerships. We do hear that education is key, that it seems overwhelming. As Jennifer noted, the U.S. is familiar to us; they've been a trading partner for many decades. We need to open up a familiarity with Europe and pan-Asia. We are also hearing from our different sector partners that a sector-specific approach needs to be taken as well.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you, all.

Mr. Fragiskatos, go ahead.

10:15 a.m.

London North Centre, Lib.

Peter Fragiskatos

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for their excellent presentations. As a first-time visitor to P.E.I., not just Charlottetown, I have to say it's a great way to begin the week.

My question goes to Mr. Schut. We spoke even before the meeting, and I sympathize very much with everything you've put on the table today in terms of your policy recommendations and the specific programming changes that you've identified as necessary. I sympathize because we hear the same sorts of concerns in the London region and in southwestern Ontario as a whole when it comes to the trucking sector.

But I have to ask, what is the lifestyle of a long-haul truck driver like? I ask that question because if these changes were to be put in place, would we actually see the problem that you're identifying, a truck driver shortage, still being a problem? It's a really hard job. It's a really hard life to be on the road, especially if you have a young family. I wonder if you could speak to that.

10:15 a.m.

Vice-President, Administration and Human Resources, Bulk Carriers PEI Limited

Mike Schut

It's a great question. Thank you.

It is a hard life. You leave and, if you're based out of Atlantic Canada, you are not back home for physical contact with kids or family for probably four to six days. Technology is a wonderful thing, and there's the ability to Skype, to FaceTime, to see your kids, and things like that.

What we are finding is that the temporary foreign worker who is coming in is used to this lifestyle. This is the lifestyle that they know and love. They are on the road in Europe for three or four weeks at a time, and they're tired of the red tape. They're tired of the crime rates. They're tired of the lifestyle. They want a better lifestyle for their families, and they are willing to make the decision to come here, to continue to do exactly what they know how to do, and do very well, so that their families can have a better lifestyle.

10:20 a.m.

London North Centre, Lib.

Peter Fragiskatos

I am looking here at the Canadian Trucking Alliance's prediction of a shortage of as many as 48,000 drivers in Canada by 2024.

My question is not to take anything away from what you've put on the table today. I think it's a very serious problem we're facing right now, one that will only stay with us. It's just that I'm the sort of person who wants to think ahead, and I think it's the responsible thing to do here. If we were going to go ahead and make these changes, I want to make sure that they would have a real positive impact and elicit the sorts of results that you and other folks in the sector are looking for.

I want to stay on trucking here, if I could. I'm reading the analysis put forward recently by the Day & Ross Transportation Group. They're based in New Brunswick, and I wonder if this is something that you're also facing. They say that there's a worldwide shortage of labour in the trucking industry, but people don't realize that it's not just drivers. They track emissions efficiency, behaviour, location, and do all sorts of complex things, and they need people in IT, finance, accounting and dispatch.

When it comes to shortages in the trucking sector, is it true that it's not just drivers, but shortages in the sector as a whole? Is that something you've faced in your business?

10:20 a.m.

Vice-President, Sales and Logistics, Bulk Carriers PEI Limited

Tyson Kelly

It's been right from mechanics and dispatchers.... I think in some jurisdictions it's tougher to hire. We have been fortunate that way here in P.E.I. for stay-at-home jobs. People haven't gone to the west. They're paid well. At the end of the day, from the company's standpoint, they have to be able to provide a high wage and a very valued position in a company that brings employees happiness. If the company doesn't bring employees happiness, they can pay all the money in the world, but no one's going to stay.

I think that's really putting the onus on the companies to have an environment that people want to be part of. Our turnover rate in transport is at 59%. We are quite low from the industry standard. We do a lot of things that are great. Can we do better? Sure. We have to think outside the box about how we're going to do it, but there are lots who are worse off than we are, and I think that being family-oriented really makes us a better choice.

10:20 a.m.

London North Centre, Lib.

Peter Fragiskatos

Thank you very much.

I have about a minute and a half left, and I'm going to put a question to the chamber.

Our committee recently heard from Startup Canada, which, as you know, is an organization that is encouraging entrepreneurship in this country. I followed up with a question for one of their presenters, because I didn't have time to put it to them in the meeting. I asked what they would like to see, aside from tax changes and regulatory approaches.

They made the case that it's really important—even more important than tax changes and regulatory changes—to emphasize access to capital for entrepreneurs, especially when it comes to pursuing tech-intensive innovation. When they decide to set up shop somewhere, firms are looking for strong universities, airport infrastructure that facilitates international connectivity, English-language proficiency in communities, and international patent rights protection.

What I've heard here today from the chamber is the emphasis on tax changes and regulatory changes. Don't get me wrong. I have respect for the chamber. I understand where you're coming from on that, but would you agree that there are all sorts of other factors at play that need to be emphasized?

And if we're going to talk about corporate tax changes in Canada, would you acknowledge that there are many commentators who have looked at what Mr. Trump has done in the United States with respect to corporate tax changes? They're talking about what that will mean for debt burden in the United States and for future generations.

That has to be a major concern for you.

10:25 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Greater Charlottetown Area Chamber of Commerce

Penny Walsh-McGuire

Most certainly. I think we're acknowledging that what is happening south of the border could have a short-term or long-term impact on our businesses in Canada, both small business and corporations.

I'll note that P.E.I. has the largest entrepreneurial entrance per capita of any province in the country. We have a growing and very successful entrepreneurial community here, start-up community.

We would certainly echo the highlights from Startup Canada. We feel that skills development, access to capital, access to research support, and starting the entrepreneurial culture at a very young age are important.

I'll just go back to that burden, because I didn't have a chance to respond to your colleague. I think that if we are feeling very confident—and economists are confident about where we stand financially—then we should set a plan in place and commit to it in terms of debt-to-GDP target. That was our point there.

As chambers, we have to talk about taxes. We have to talk about regulations. We have to provide the support for an entrepreneurial community that is growing and very successful here in our province. Many of the points you noted, such as access to capital and regulatory burdens, are still there. They're barriers, so we have to recognize those.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you, all.

We will have time for one last question for Mr. Kelly.

Before I get there, it was about the temporary foreign workers, both with Bulk Carriers and the island tours. There are 17 trucks without bums in the seats, if I could put it that way.

We're talking about competitiveness in the economy. That's our theme.

A number of us got here on the plane last night at about 2 a.m. In terms of PEI Select Tours, I know that when we're trying to get temporary foreign workers in for Kelly Doyle, the workers are burned out. They are supposed to be in at 12:30, and sometimes it's not until four in the morning. I come in and I see them.

Regarding the system itself, do you have any comments? You need truckers. You need people. There's no urgency in the system. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

How do we deal with that problem? Can you make a point about the urgency of the system and getting an application through the system now, not restarting an application and waiting another 30 days, which I know happens all the time?

Do any of you have any comments?

10:25 a.m.

President, PEI Select Tours Inc.

Kelly Doyle

I just know that our industry is really time-sensitive, because we only have six months of the year to make it. We go out to Vancouver next month and we'll plan next year with 15, 20, or 30 different companies to bring people to P.E.I.

When we're doing that, we're just naturally assuming that we're going to have the guides to fill the positions for all the people who are coming. We plan as though we're going to have them. However, when they get here, we find out that our application, which has been put in for a month, was left on somebody's desk and hasn't even been looked at yet; or they've actually changed the application in the past. From the time we put it in until it got read, the application had been changed, and then we had to pay another $1,000 to put in the new application because what we put in the first one wasn't right for the second one.

That sounds crazy, but the urgency is that we have time-sensitive businesses here that can only run for six months. I don't get these tours in December or January.

The level of guiding has to be up to snuff for the Japanese people or they will find another destination to go to.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mike, do you have any comments?

10:25 a.m.

Vice-President, Administration and Human Resources, Bulk Carriers PEI Limited

Mike Schut

Yes. It's a regional processing centre here in Atlantic Canada, based out of Saint John, New Brunswick. You send in an application, and right now, you don't know who is going to be reviewing that application. It might be a new person who was just trained.

I would recommend that individuals within that processing centre be specialized in areas of the industry, so that the questions asked are not the same ones on every application, time after time. We've been using the program since 2004. My answers to the questions are the same every time we apply.

There are individuals who have repeatedly reviewed my applications and processed them in a very expeditious manner, and there are those who cause extra questions to be answered, which have been answered previously.

Once it is approved, with the time it now takes to get a name assigned to it, we apply for a blanket 25 positions. We don't know the names at the time of application, but we determine those over time. It should not take another three or four weeks to have the name put on the LMIA. It should be a quick turnaround.

I have 10 applications that have been sitting in the hopper now for the past two and a half weeks. I still don't have them to send to the individuals, some of whom are here in Canada ready to start.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Pat, you may ask the last question.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Thank you.

I'd like to allow Ms. Walsh-McGuire another moment to further respond to some of the numbers that came out, in part from my colleague Mr. Sorbara. He mentioned the debt-to-GDP number, which sounded as though it reflected only the federal government debt. Most of the provinces, of course, are pretty much basket cases in terms of systemic deficits with no end in sight.

When you look at the entire burden of government debt on the Canadian economy, and coming through a period where, as many analysts think, we might be getting close to the peak of a business cycle, with recovered commodity prices and a real estate boom that has been under way, we have all this wind in the economy's sails, yet the federal government is still running a significant deficit.

Can you comment a little further on the wisdom of that? Can you talk a little more about the numbers for debt-to-GDP that actually include all of the government debt in Canada?

10:30 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Greater Charlottetown Area Chamber of Commerce

Penny Walsh-McGuire

I opened my remarks about the fiscal situation of our country with the comment that there are a lot of priorities and pressures on the budget each year.

We recognize that here in P.E.I. we've seen significant investment in infrastructure, in our airport, our port, our Trans-Canada Highway, and I could go on.

I won't get into the numbers. We could debate the economists' perspectives all day. I would just reiterate that the perspective from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and from our chamber is that times are good, so let's get a plan in place such that when those headwinds do hit, which some economists say is coming, we're ready and we're prepared. That would be my summary comment, that we have a plan in place as a country.

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

Perhaps this year we'll get a date in the budget.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We leave the last word to you, Mr. Kelly.

We thank all the witnesses for their presentations. Thank you, Barry and Tony, for coming from Nova Scotia.

We will suspend for about 10 minutes and reconvene at 10:45 a.m.

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We will reconvene.

As I think everyone knows, we're the finance committee, and we're doing pre-budget consultations for budget 2019.

First, I want to thank all the witnesses for coming.

Just to give you an idea of where all our members come from, I will quickly go around the table so members can introduce themselves and where they are from.

Mr. Julian, do you want to start?

10:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

I'm Peter Julian. I'm a member of Parliament for New Westminister—Burnaby, on the other side of the country. I'm very glad to be here in Charlottetown.

10:45 a.m.

Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC

Leona Alleslev

I'm Leona Alleslev. I'm from Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, which is in Ontario, just north of Toronto.

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB

I'm Pat Kelly. I represent Calgary Rocky Ridge, the northwest suburbs of Calgary.

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I'm Wayne Easter, just from outside of Charlottetown.