Finance Committee on Oct. 15th, 2018

[Nathan Schultz]

Yes, and it impacts families tremendously as well, because everyone is so connected in a community. It's loss after loss after loss. I just started this job five months ago, and I had no idea how much need there was.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. We will have to cut it there. We will go a little over time, if that's okay.

We'll have Mr. Kelly and then Mr. Julian.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

I have just a quick question or maybe an opportunity to get some more testimony from Mr. Northey. Your ask is for a federal contribution to be in partnership for the construction of transportation infrastructure necessary to open up the ability to build the mine. You spoke about the community benefits, obviously, of having a land connection that will drastically reduce the costs of living in the north for many people.

In response to Mr. Jeneroux's question about accessing the federal infrastructure bank, you were quite quick to say that this is not the type of investment that the infrastructure bank is interested in at all. Your phrase was that it just wouldn't give a big enough bang. I found it strange that a project that would create the first land connection of a territory to the rest of Canada would be considered to not be a sufficient bang. I'm not a fan of the infrastructure bank as a policy, but I want you to comment further on the magnitude and what this would mean to residents of the north, not just the hundreds who will work in the mine but the rest of the community, and the benefit to northerners to have this infrastructure in place.

[Scott Northey]

I'm going to go back to my initial comment. When I said not enough bang, the bank right now only considers pure return on investment in terms of how they calculate what's a useful project to look at.

If the bank would consider tax revenues to Canada or the territorial government as part of that bucket, we'd be fine. We could have a long discussion with them. That's not what they're looking for. They're looking for what can the revenues we're going to charge for users generate to be able to generate a return on investment that they can then market to institutional investors. That's what I meant by saying there's not enough bang for it to work that way.

In terms of the north, we alluded to this notion of sealift. Once a year a ship comes out of Montreal and delivers bulk and dry goods to the communities. This year it didn't make it to the two biggest communities coming out of Hay River. If you think about the cost of somebody.... The relationships with our region are north-south, so the relationships are with Yellowknife and with Edmonton. Our guys go to Edmonton, buy a truck and ship it to Montreal. It's shipped up on a ship, hopefully, and gets delivered to the community. That's an extra $6,000 cost. Instead, if they had this winter road, they'd fly to Edmonton, they'd drive their truck on the winter road back up to the port, and when the ice goes out in the spring, they'd deliver their truck to their own community via barge.

That's the simple answer.

The cost of flying south is huge. This at least gives them some seasonal access initially to be able to drive to the south to lower their cost of actual travel and reduce the sense of isolation. The Northwest Territories is also looking at putting in an all-weather corridor to replace their winter road. This would be phase one. We're working very closely with them, but this is phase one in the opportunity to create an all-season connection from the Northwest Passage to the rest of Canada. We've quantified the value to community, we've quantified the value to the economy, but we haven't talked much about sovereignty and the opportunity it gives Canada to have a deepwater port for DND and the Coast Guard, and the increased safety through search and rescue opportunities.

There's a ship that ran aground in Nunavut this past summer. The first contact from the south was seven hours by a Hercules that flew over. That was it. We got lucky that nothing happened with that grounding, no spills, no fatalities, but who knows what's going to happen the next time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

Mr. Julian, you have the last question.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I want to follow up, Mr. Schultz, on my last question. If we look to an increase in mental health funding, what would be the most critical thing to address first in Yukon Territory? What is the area that is of most critical need?

I'm not trying to make it a trick question. If you don't have an answer right away, it's something you could certainly send to us later.

[Grand Chief Peter Johnston]

I think the support programs in the rural communities is definitely a problem. You only have maybe one individual who visits Mayo once every two weeks, and the demand and the necessity of that program and service to our people is very significant. I think when you look at fly-in communities such as Old Crow, it diminishes even that opportunity for those folks to get some necessary support. I think access, let alone the stigmas, as Nathan has brought forward, is very apparent here.

There's even having programs that are reflective of our traditional ways of doing things. When I talked earlier about the support mechanisms for our people, it's very significant that we recognize that we are unique as individuals here in the north, let alone as northerners, yet let alone the dynamics and the demographics. Even though we are a small community of Yukon, there are 14 unique first nations that have different ways of dealing with things, traditionally and ceremonially. I think we have to be reflective of what our clientele looks like. I think we really haven't had that ability to foster and develop programs that are significant but reflective of us as traditional people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

There's time for one last question to the Nunavut Resource Corporation.

You have a pretty extensive proposal here on a new port at Grays Bay. The all-weather gravel road and the runway at the port site make sense. As a government, how do we quit spending money and how do we avoid going further into deficit?

These kinds of proposals make so much sense, for seizing the opportunities that exist in the north and giving the opportunities to the northern people as well. How do we do some of these big projects, which need to be done for the next century? If we stay where we are, we're going to fall further behind. We have to invest to get ahead. Do you have any suggestions on where the federal government could go, in an all-encompassing way, on those big projects that are so much needed and would make such a difference?

[Scott Northey]

There are multiple things to consider. At a minimum, government needs to ensure that the private sector's participation has been maximized, as much as it can be maximized. We've done our best to try to identify user groups and quite often it's difficult to talk speculatively about people entering into long-term usage contracts when there's not something concrete to put on the table. We think that we can access third party capital to the tune of 25% to 30% of the cost. That leaves us 70% short. There is a reality with nation-building projects. Unless you're willing to look at the tax revenues that are associated with the economic activities that have been generated as a result of the infrastructure going into place, it's going to be very difficult to generate the positive returns.

We do know that, in the review of the Canada Transportation Act, which was tabled two years ago, the final report suggested that, for the $2-billion cost of the Northwest Territories portion and our portion, this corridor alone would generate a return of about $39 billion over a 20-year horizon, but again, most of those returns are things like tax revenues or additional GDP. In terms of pure revenues generated from charging for usage, it doesn't move the dial as it relates to the Canada Infrastructure Bank, and that's where our problem is. There are no programs available that would allow the government to participate in the way it normally would participate in projects like this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We appreciate all your presentations and your answers to our questions. With that, we will have to suspend for 15 minutes and come up with the second panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll reconvene with my new gavel.

Welcome to the witnesses who are here this morning.

As everyone knows, these are the pre-budget consultations, in advance of the 2019 budget.

Before I start, to just give you folks a little idea of where members come from and the regions they represent, we'll do an introduction around the table.

I apologize on behalf of Larry Bagnell, who couldn't be here because of what we call an Ottawa filibuster at the Board of Internal Economy. He had to go back to do that.

We'll start with Pat.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you.

I'm Pat Kelly, the member of Parliament for Calgary Rocky Ridge and I'm a Conservative opposition MP.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I'm Matt Jeneroux, the member of Parliament for Edmonton. I'm a Conservative member.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

My name is Peter Julian and I am vice-chair of the committee.

I'm an NDP member of Parliament. I represent the traditional territories of the Qayqayt First Nation and Coast Salish peoples, from the riding of New Westminster—Burnaby in coastal British Columbia

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I'm Michael McLeod from the Northwest Territories. Hello to everybody.

[Kim Rudd]

Good morning. I guess it is still morning.

I'm Kim Rudd. I am the member of Parliament for Northumberland—Peterborough South. For context, that is a rural riding in southeastern Ontario.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'm Wayne Easter, the member of Parliament for Malpeque, in Prince Edward Island.

We'll start with Jennifer Flanagan from Actua.

[Jennifer Flanagan, President and Chief Executive Officer, Actua]

Thank you so much. It's so good to be here. I really appreciate the opportunity to address all of you.

My name is Jennifer Flanagan. I am the CEO of Actua, which is a national charity. Thank you for inviting us to talk a bit about how our organization is contributing to Canada's growth and economic competitiveness.

For the past 25 years, Actua and its network of 37 local member organizations have worked to provide essential STEM skills to Canadian youth and to instill in them the confidence to pursue careers in these high-demand fields. Every year, we engage 250,000 youth in 500 communities, reaching every province and territory in the country.

It is very fitting, and in fact an honour, to be able to speak to you here in Whitehorse, where Actua, through our partner, Yukon College, has been working for many years to deliver STEM programming to youth right across the territory.

Actua prioritizes outreach to youth who most often face exclusion from the workforce. This includes indigenous Canadians, girls, newcomers and those facing other socio-economic barriers. In fact, half of our total annual budget is committed to the work that we are doing in partnership with 250 first nations, Inuit and Métis communities.

Key to our success—and in fact what this looks like on the ground, whether it's in downtown Toronto or here in the Yukon—is year-round programming, where teams travel to communities and engage youth outside of the classroom to build the skills that are required for them to fully participate in the workforce of the future.

How does federal government support for Actua help to ensure our economic competitiveness?

By 2020, Canada's STEM workforce will require 220,000 additional workers to meet demand, a workforce gap that, as you know, is only growing. To remain competitive, Canada will need to look for creative approaches and partners that address this challenge—a challenge that is not currently being met by schools and institutions. Our work is filling that critical gap in workforce development: the gap between formal education and on-the-job training. We do this by engaging under-represented youth directly in their communities. We use local instructors to integrate STEM skills learning with personalized intensive and culturally relevant programming that is delivered within the local economic context.

We also use a multisectoral approach to achieve impact. We work with our network members, who are located at colleges and universities, and with our private sector partners, who help us develop new innovative content that builds the skills they are identifying as critical for the future of work. We're proud to work with global and Canadian companies such as Google, GE, Shopify, Suncor, TD and Microsoft, to name just a few.

It is within this context that Actua is seeking $45 million in federal funding over the next five years to allow us to scale our programs to meet the growing demand. This federal investment would be leveraged with $115 million pledged from our corporate sector partners, foundations and our network members.

According to a study conducted by the Conference Board of Canada, a $45-million investment from the federal government in Actua would result in the following benefits. It would lead to $560 million of GDP growth. It would increase government tax revenue by an additional $169 million. It would generate $341 million in new lifetime wages for participants. Also, it would encourage as many as 90,000 additional young Canadians to pursue careers in STEM.

Additionally, research indicates that careers in STEM earn on average 20% more in lifetime earnings than non-STEM careers. For indigenous Canadians, this effect is even more profound. Careers in STEM can increase lifetime earnings by as much as 141% for men and 150% for women.

However, as great as these results may be, we cannot achieve them without the federal government coming to the table. By 2023, at the end of that federal investment, we will have reached 3.6 million Canadians, many of whom would have otherwise slipped through the cracks. Less economic diversity means less competitiveness, and we're already facing serious shortcomings in our competitive ability to prepare Canadian youth for the innovative jobs of the future. We simply cannot afford to leave large parts of the Canadian population out of the future workforce.

As you consider your recommendations to the Government of Canada and the Minister of Finance, we ask that you endorse Actua's $45-million request over five years to support and scale these these programs across the country.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Jennifer.

Just for the benefit of everyone here, do you want to mention what STEM means?

[Jennifer Flanagan]

Yes. It's science, technology, engineering and math.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

Turning to the next group, we have the Association franco-yukonnaise, with Ms. Jeanne Beaudoin and Mr. Frédéric Nolet.

[Jeanne Beaudoin, President, Association franco-yukonnaise]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, members of the committee. Welcome to the Yukon.

My name is Jeanne Beaudoin and I am president of the Association franco-yukonnaise. I would like to thank you for inviting me to appear for this pre-budget consultation.

The Association franco-yukonnaise (AFY) was created in 1982. It works to develop and maintain the services, programs and institutions necessary for the advancement of life in French in the Yukon, in collaboration with its government, municipal, community and private sector partners. More than 2,000 people participate annually in our various activities and enjoy our services.

According to the 2016 census, the Yukon ranks third in Canada for its bilingualism rate, after Quebec and New Brunswick. Of course, the figures are more modest, but, even so, 13.8% of the Yukon population speaks French. Statistics Canada forecasts a steady increase in the francophone population in the Yukon by 2030.

Clearly, French and the francophonie are key drivers of the Yukon and Canadian economy. Although the action plan for official languages announced last March contains some excellent measures, more needs to be done to support the Yukon francophone population. It is important to also respond to the call of the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages that the federal government take concrete measures to reflect the significant increase in the number of francophone communities and residents in the three territories, as noted in the last census.

A number of Government of Canada programs have seen significant increases in their funding, but those increases are still based on an approach that does not take into account the asymmetry of realities in different parts of the country. We therefore recommend that the government consider basing the fund distribution formula not only on the number of francophones, but also on the factors of community vitality, the specific characteristics of the communities, and the economic reality of the provinces and territories, in order to provide them with the tools required to meet the needs of francophones.

As you know, it is through federal-provincial-territorial agreements that a large portion of the millions of dollars announced in the Action Plan for Official Languages 2018-2023: Investing in Our Future will be spent. Unfortunately, the Official Languages Act does not require the federal government to include language clauses for the benefit of official language minority communities in those agreements. We therefore recommend that all federal departments include a language clause in all agreements on the transfer of funds from the federal government to territorial governments. This clause must be clear, binding and, above all, enforced.

We also recommend that the government explore the possibility of matching the funds that are regularly channelled through the provinces, territories and municipalities with a francophone component going directly to the community organizations in question.

As you know, education is essential to Canada's economic growth. However, this sector is not included in the Action Plan. Despite the steady growth of many French first-language programs in the Yukon, the bilateral education agreements have not seen an increase in funding in more than 10 years. Franco-Yukon students are therefore forced to leave the territory to pursue post-secondary education in French. In most cases, they have to go east, either to the University of Ottawa, the University of Moncton, or in Quebec.

In fact, one young Yukon francophone, Anna Tölgyesi, gathered more than 500 signatures on a petition urging the federal government to address this issue. The petition was tabled in the House of Commons by our MP, Larry Bagnell, in June 2018.

We believe that federal support to increase the number of programs available in French in western and northern Canada would help the economy and innovation across Canada. These programs would also allow immersion students to pursue their education in French in their part of the country, and help achieve the federal government's objective of seeing a significant increase in the country's bilingualism rate over the next five years.

We therefore recommend that the government invest more in education, from kindergarten through post-secondary, by bolstering the funding of bilateral education agreements by at least 20% and by allocating specific funding to increase the number of post-secondary programs in French in western and northern Canada.

In terms of immigration, we recommend that the Government of Canada invest additional funds for the recruitment of francophone immigrants, taking into account the labour needs of the provinces and territories. We propose that the federal government work with the communities and the provincial and territorial governments to develop a recruitment action plan to achieve the 4.4% target set for 2023.

As for seniors, we ask that the federal government significantly increase investments in programs for seniors, that it take into account the realities of francophones in minority communities when establishing the criteria for the distribution of funds and that it keep in mind the issues of isolation, lack of affordable housing and access to health care, and the costs of living in the north.

Finally, on the arts and culture front, we ask that the federal government increase the annual funding of the Canadian Arts Presentation Fund (CAPF) by $30 million per year over three years, as recommended by the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française. The limited funding we receive for this purpose inhibits the growth potential of many communities, including the Yukon francophone community.

We have submitted a brief in English and French, which is a little longer than my presentation.

Thank you. Mahsi cho.

You can ask your question in English. If you don't mind, I will answer it in French. It will be more fluid for me and for you.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Frédéric. Thank you very much, Ms. Beaudoin.

I believe the next four groups are with the first nations.

It might be helpful when you start your remarks if you indicate where you're from. I know some people went to pretty great lengths to get here. I think Ms. Joseph drove 600 kilometres from the north to get here. Mr. Johnston, who was here earlier for a one-minute statement, drove 400 kilometres, I believe. That will go on the record as well. If you could do that it might be helpful to the committee members as well.

With the Champagne and Aishihik First Nations, we welcome Chief Steve Smith.

[Chief Steve Smith, Champagne and Aishihik First Nations]

Thank you.

Good morning, committee members. Thank you for coming to the Yukon.

First of all, I'd like to open up with thanks. We are guests on the land of the Tagish Kwan people, represented by the Ta'an and Kwanlin Dün first nations.

[Witness speaks in Dakwänje]

My name is Steve Smith. I'm the chief of the Champagne and Aishihik First Nations, representing peoples encompassing the southwest Yukon portion and the northwestern part of British Columbia, a drive of roughly an hour and a half from here, who are sharing the territory of the Kluane park with our brothers here, the Kluane First Nation.

I'd like to speak about a couple of broad notes. Then I'll speak about some things that are very specific to Champagne and Aishihik.

In the current situation, Yukon's economy is growing at a healthy rate. We have a very low unemployment rate. Our population, as was just announced, is over 42,000 people. Yukon first nations are roughly 25% of that population. Although the unemployment rate is quite low for the Yukon in general, Yukon first nations, as with most first nations in the rest of territory or the rest of the country, still experience fairly high rates.

We believe that to achieve long-term economic growth and competitiveness all sectors of the population and all communities across the territory must have the opportunity to participate in the growth. This is not happening at the moment, and for one main reason. We continue to struggle to implement our land claims and our self-government agreements.

For self-governing first nations in Yukon, our participation in the growth is not just good economics; it's a treaty right. We signed a deal with Canada. That includes all parts of the Canadian Confederation.

Yukon self-government agreements state the following principle: “The Parties are committed to promoting opportunities for the well-being of Citizens equal to those of other Canadians”. We expect this commitment to be kept. Currently for our programming in terms of our FTA funds, we are always underfunded. You'll hear more from my colleagues about that.

With regard to budget 2019, I'd like to focus on three areas that will support Yukon first nations, and specifically Champagne and Aishihik, in economic growth: revitalization of the languages, improved community infrastructure and housing, and investment in the energy sector.

Language revitalization is seen by Champagne and Aishihik First Nations as the primary and most important project that we're undertaking. For Champagne and Aishihik First Nations, the people themselves have committed over $1 million from their land claim compensation funds to invest in a language immersion program.

That program is now into its fifth week as of today, and it is really the first of its kind in the Yukon. We have 10 students going every day, for eight to nine hours a day, to be fully immersed in speaking Dakwänje—Southern Tutchone—in our community, with the hope that once they have done this program they will become the foundation of the language revitalization efforts for Champagne and Aishihik moving forward. They will be the ones going into the schools. They will be the ones leading the language immersion programs in the future. It's highly important.

What we ask of the government is support for this. It will cost us roughly a million dollars per year over the next 10 years to fund this program. Over the next 10 years, if the program is successful, you'll see approximately 50 students come out of this at a level that is adequate to be able to teach the language from a fluency level.

We've asserted some of our language jurisdiction by creating our own language act, which in Canada is paramount or equal to any other act of either Yukon or federal governments with regard to the protection of the Southern Tutchone language for Champagne and Aishihik First Nations. We are continually trying to increase the languages because this for us is the key first step to really becoming economically self-sufficient and self-reliant. Language is spoken about both in UNDRIP and TRC, and of course in the royal proclamation, as a necessary aspect of us as a people regaining our self-determination and really and truly taking our place within the fabric of Canadian society.

The next thing is community infrastructure and housing. Champagne and Aishihik is looking at our program, which will need roughly $7.5 million over the next three to four years to adequately house the number of citizens we have in our communities.

We are looking not only for housing, but we need the infrastructure. Champagne and Aishihik has a number of parcels of settlement land, as do the other first nations, specifically within already designated communities. We're looking to have the ability to develop those parcels of land so that we can provide the housing for our people, and not just government-funded housing but to provide the access to the land for those individuals who have the ability to gain a mortgage and invest in Champagne and Aishihik land with their own dollars and build the community from that aspect.

The final thing for us is the inclusion in the energy sector. Champagne and Aishihik, for over 40 years, has been pushed to the side with regard to a major energy project within the Yukon. The Aishihik Lake dam was created in the early 1970s. It was 1973 when they started construction.

It was basically a situation where they brought in an almost illiterate chief, who could not speak English, and he was forced to agree to having the dam created within our traditional territory. Though you heard earlier about how it is important for mining growth and everything else, Champagne and Aishihik has continually paid, from our cultural side and our environmental side, for major mining initiatives within the Yukon, and it has never been accounted for.

That being said, we are not here to stop development. We want to be a part of the development. Part of that development is becoming a partner in the energy sector, to be able to fill the need which is currently at capacity in the Yukon. We can hardly face more development in the very near future, because we just do not have the capacity on the hydro, especially in electrical generation.

What we want when we move forward is to be a part of the conversation and part of the investment: people leading the actual development. We feel that first nations will have a better understanding of what the impact of any type of development would be in our traditional territory. Champagne and Aishihik, I think is poised.... We have a high opportunity to invest in areas—wind generation, hydroelectrical generation—but we want to be a part of that. The other thing is biomass on the environmental side, utilizing the biomass within our traditional territory to create electrical generation.

Mr. Kelly, you asked earlier on about the need for diesel generation in the very near future. There's going to be a need. Yukon is growing population-wise, but it's also growing from the development side. We have two mines that are currently in the development stage right now, and they're going to need power moving forward. Having the ability for us to be the purveyors of that resource puts our people into a positive situation with regard to any further development within the territory.

With that, I have one final comment. I've said this to every federal person that I've ever spoken to. We ask you to be concerted and truthful about the implementation of our land claim. Champagne and Aishihik signed our land claim and self-government agreement 25 years ago this year. We have been on the road of self-government for that time, and we have been committed to the further development of our people.

We've always tried to do a lot of good for our people with the few shekels we have, but we're always at a negative starting point because of our FTAs, our fiscal transfer agreements. Very similar to the provinces and the territories, our agreements with the federal government have always been chronically underfunded. You'll hear about that more from my colleagues, I'm sure.

With that, kwänäschis. Thank you for coming. Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Chief Smith.

We'll turn now to the Kluane First Nation.

Chief Dickson and Ms. Badenhorst, welcome.