Evidence of meeting #184 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was proposed.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Manuel Dussault  Senior Director, Framework Policy, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Justin Brown  Director, Financial Stability, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Peter Fragiskatos  London North Centre, Lib.
Yuki Bourdeau  Senior Advisor, Capital Markets Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Eleanor Ryan  Director General, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Jean-François Girard  Director, Consumer Affairs, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Brigitte Goulard  Deputy Commissionner, Financial Consumer Agency of Canada
Kim Rudd  Northumberland—Peterborough South, Lib.
Mark Schaan  Director General, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
Ian Wright  Director, Financial Crimes Governance and Operations, Department of Finance
Darryl C. Patterson  Director, Corporate, Insolvency and Competition Policy Directorate, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Martin Simard  Director, Copyright and Trademark Policy, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Andrea Flewelling  Senior Policy Advisor, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Patrick Blanar  Senior Policy Analyst, Patent Policy Directorate, Department of Industry
Dale MacMillan  Vice-President, Corporate Services and Chief Financial Officer, National Research Council of Canada
Christopher Johnstone  Director General, National Programs and Business Services, National Research Council of Canada
Eric Grant  Director, Community Lands Development, Lands and Environmental Management, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Leane Walsh  Director, Fiscal Policy and Investment Readiness, Economic Policy Development, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Susan Waters  Director General, Lands and Environmental Management Branch, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Michèle Govier  Senior Director, Trade Rules, International Trade and Finance Branch, Department of Finance
Katharine Funtek  Executive Director, Trade Controls Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Bev Shipley  Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC
Nicole Giles  Director, International Trade and Finance, Assistant Deputy Minister's Office, Department of Finance
Deirdre Kent  Director General, International Assistance Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Mark Lusignan  Director General, Grants and contributions Management, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (International Trade)
Michelle Kaminski  Director, Office of Innovative Finance, Grants and Contributions Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Chantal Larocque  Deputy Director, Development Finance, Grants and Contributions Financial Policy, Foreign Affairs Canada
Danielle Bélanger  Director, Gender-Based Analysis Plus and Strategic Policy, Policy and External Relations Directorate, Status of Women Canada
Alison McDermott  General Director, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Derek Armstrong  Executive Director, Results Division, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Lori Straznicky  Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Don Graham  Senior Advisor to the Assistant Deputy Minister, Compensation and Labour Relations Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Bruce Kennedy  Manager, Pay Equity Task Team, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Richard Stuart  Executive Director, Expenditure Analysis and Compensation Planning, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Colin Spencer James  Senior Director, Social Development Policy, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Andrew Brown  Director General, Employment Insurance Policy Directorate, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Barbara Moran  Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Rutha Astravas  Director, Employment Insurance Policy, Special Benefits Policy, Department of Employment and Social Development
Charles Philippe Rochon  Senior Policy Analyst, Labour Standards and Wage Earner Protection Program, Workplace Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development

8 p.m.

Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Straznicky

That is a good question. Off the top of my head, I don't have an answer to give you. We'd be happy to come back with one.

8 p.m.

Northumberland—Peterborough South, Lib.

Kim Rudd

Okay. That's fine.

8 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

You can forward that answer to the clerk and we'll distribute it.

Mr. Sorbara.

8 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

I have a quick question.

Obviously, this applies only to federally regulated sectors of the economy. Is that correct?

8 p.m.

Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

8 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

What percentage of employees will be covered out of the whole employee base in Canada?

8 p.m.

Bruce Kennedy Manager, Pay Equity Task Team, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

I think in the federal private sector it's about 9%.

8 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

Therefore, 91% of Canadian workers will not be covered by this legislation.

Have you undertaken preliminary data on the quantitative side? We often hear the numbers that are put out in terms of a differential in the pay gaps between men and women. The number I tend to refer to is 88.5¢. That's a number that I believe is in the literature that's been put out with regard to the BIA. Is that correct?

8 p.m.

Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Straznicky

The 88.5¢ reflects the hourly wage gap, yes.

8 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

That's when you're comparing apples to apples or oranges to oranges.

8 p.m.

Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Straznicky

I can't say specifically what the comparisons would be, but on the hourly wage difference, yes, it's 88.5¢.

November 5th, 2018 / 8 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

Was any analysis done on the differential within the federal private sector versus the private sector that's covered by a federal statute of law? That would be someone working for the federal government here in Ottawa versus someone working for an airline or a bank or a telecommunications company or a railway.

8 p.m.

Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Straznicky

In terms of the gender wage gap in the public sector...?

8 p.m.

Richard Stuart Executive Director, Expenditure Analysis and Compensation Planning, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

The wage gap for the public sector wouldn't include private sector, because unless the Crown—

8 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

Sorry, let me rephrase. There's the wage gap in the public sector that's covered by federal legislation—“government workers”, if I can use that term—and then the wage gap for the sectors that are not public sector that are regulated by federal statute.

8 p.m.

Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Straznicky

In terms of the breakdown of the 88.5¢, it is Canadian workers, as I understand it. On the specifics of the wage gap in the public sector, we could review that and come back to you if we don't have stats on hand.

8 p.m.

Executive Director, Expenditure Analysis and Compensation Planning, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Richard Stuart

We can check what data we have available. TBS doesn't have data on the federal private sector—

8:05 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

Federal public sector workers....

8:05 p.m.

Executive Director, Expenditure Analysis and Compensation Planning, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Richard Stuart

For public sector workers, that's available, and it's higher. It was 94.1¢, if I'm not erring, last year.

That was the ratio, 94.1¢ on average, for female workers compared with men.

8:05 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

In the federal public sector...?

8:05 p.m.

Executive Director, Expenditure Analysis and Compensation Planning, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Richard Stuart

That's right.

8:05 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

Do we have the data for workers who are regulated under federal legislation in the private sector: telecoms, banks, railways, airlines, etc.?

8:05 p.m.

Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Straznicky

I'm concerned that I'm not appreciating your question.

The wage gap data that we use for the private sector is the 88.5¢ of the hourly wage.

8:05 p.m.

Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

But there is a differential between that and the 94.1¢ that you just referenced.

8:05 p.m.

Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development

Lori Straznicky

There are different methodologies that are used to calculate the wage gap, depending on what we're looking at. But yes, there's a difference between what we've just used as the public sector wage gap number and the 88.5¢ stat.