Finance Committee on Nov. 6th, 2018

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for your testimony.

On May 4, 2015, the Liberal leader unveiled the Canada child benefit while visiting my riding of Hull—Aylmer. While making the announcement, he said, “Our plan is progressive. We can do more for the people who need it by doing less for the people who don't”. Canadians embraced this policy and this program.

We eliminated the Canada child tax benefit, which was aimed at low-income families, and the universal child care benefit, which had been developed by the Conservatives. That program was available to everyone, even millionaires. It was replaced by the new Canada child benefit, which came in the form of a tax-free monthly cheque. In the opinion of myself, my constituents, and certainly all of the country's top analysts, this is the most important social program to be introduced in the past 50 years.

In Bill C-86, a second act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 27, 2018 and other measures, you proposed certain amendments. Can you tell me why?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you for that very important question.

We decided that this measure was important for Canadian families. The Canada child benefit means more money for families during the toughest years, when their kids are growing up. You're right to say that thanks to our decision, families across the country are doing much better.

This program helps the vast majority of families, but not all of them. The wealthiest families, like my own, for example, don't need help. I had two kids under 18 when I first became an MP. It was important to determine which families needed this benefit, and that's what we did.

Families in your riding of Hull—Aylmer are unquestionably much better off. There are now 9,742 families receiving an average of $6,700 each, and 17,660 children have been helped by this benefit. That makes a huge difference for families. Families are clearly better off than before.

This decision was also important for the economy as a whole. When families have more money, they can make investments while contributing to our economy. It's a win-win situation for families and for the economy.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I couldn't agree with you more.

Minister, I often go door to door in my riding, especially in areas where residents are working hard to join the middle class. These measures are life-changing for them and their families. This measure has lifted many people out of poverty. It's making a big difference.

My second question is about another social program, the Canada workers benefit, which you announced last year in your fall economic statement. In the budget implementation act, you propose amendments to simplify the process in order to make sure people in need get this benefit.

Could you explain how this will work? Why is it so important to help these workers?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you for your question.

The Canada workers benefit is vital for very low income workers. It enables them to be part of the workforce, which is incredibly important. We're improved this program to make life easier for people in vulnerable situations. We've also taken into account the challenges faced by people who don't automatically have access to this benefit. We decided that it was important to make sure the Canada Revenue Agency could offer eligible workers automatic access to this benefit. This is a major change, because it will help more people receive this benefit.

As we did with the Canada child benefit, we need to think about how programs can be improved every year and consider whether our approach is causing difficulties or problems. For instance, last year, we indexed the Canada child benefit. We're going to keep thinking of ways we can help middle-class families and people in more vulnerable situations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Minister, thank you very much for your 90 minutes on these issues.

Committee members, thank you again.

Mr. Marsland and Ms. Yaskiel, thank you as well.

For committee members, there are bells at 5:53, so we are going to have to change our schedule. We do have to hear as yet from Employment and Social Development Canada on part 4, division 16 of BIA 2, and then we need to hear from departmental officials on the budget implementation act, too.

We as a committee also have to deal—for 15 minutes, in camera—with the money laundering and terrorism financing report. It went to members at 11 o'clock this morning, and we want to do a quick review to make sure that it is correct.

I'm going to have to kick everybody out of the room except members. Thank you, Minister. I'll ask the witnesses from the department, Ms. Yaskiel and crew, and the people dealing with part 4, division 16 to just wait for 10 minutes and we'll invite them back in.

Thank you, all.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll reconvene. I call the meeting to order, to go through departmental witnesses on the subject matter of Bill C-86, the budget implementation act.

With us we have the group that we didn't have time to deal with last evening, so thank you for your indulgence.

We're dealing with part 4, division 16, on the wage earner protection program act. We have Ms. Baxter and Mr. Duff.

The floor is yours.

[Brenda Baxter, Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Great. Thank you.

I'm just going to turn this over to Alex, the manager of the wage earner protection program, policy and oversight, to give you the overview of the changes to the wage earner protection program.

[Alex Duff, Manager, Wage Earner Protection Program, Policy and Oversight, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The wage earner protection program is a program that compensates workers when their employer files for bankruptcy or becomes subject to receivership. It can make payments to workers in respect of unpaid wages, unpaid vacation pay, severance pay or termination pay.

As part of the amendment—and I forgot to mention that it's division 16, clauses 626 to 653—the main change is an increase to the maximum payment under the program. The current maximum payment is an amount of $3,977. The budget implementation act changes would increase that to $6,960. The maximum amount is pegged to the employment insurance maximum insurable earnings, so it's going from four weeks up to seven weeks. It's important to stress that this is the maximum payment, so it has to be in respect of amounts that workers are owed. It's not a benefit. It's only for wages they are owed. That maximum payment would apply retroactively to February 27, the date of the budget.

In addition to the increase to the maximum payment, there are also amendments to ensure that workers who work past the date of bankruptcy or receivership are still eligible for the wage earner protection program with respect to severance and termination pay.

Eligibility will also be expanded to cover foreign bankruptcies, as well as to make more timely payments when an employer is restructuring under the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act, or under a proposal under the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act.

There are also amendments to ensure a greater recovery of amounts paid out by the wage earner protection program, because when a WEPP payment is made, the government is subrogated to those amounts, so we step into the shoes of the worker in the insolvency process and try to recover that money back to the government.

That's an overview of the changes. I'm happy to answer any questions from the members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Are there any questions for Mr. Duff or Ms. Baxter from committee members?

This doesn't involve pensions, though. It's just the....

[Alex Duff]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

There are no questions. Isn't that unbelievable?

Thank you very much. You waited all this time, and you got no questions. Isn't that a wonderful thing?

Thank you very much, Ms. Baxter and Mr. Duff.

[Alex Duff]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll bring up the departmental witnesses for supplementary estimates (A).

We're changing gears a little bit again as a committee. Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), votes 1a and 10a under the Department of Finance in supplementary estimates (A), 2018-19, were referred to the committee on Wednesday, October 24, 2018.

We have witnesses here from the Department of Finance to deal with those and to answer any questions we may have on supplementary estimates (A). We have Ms. Yaskiel, associate deputy minister; Ms. Bess, chief financial officer; and Ms. Denny, director, financial management and reporting, corporate services branch.

Welcome.

I don't know if you have an opening statement.

[Ava Yaskiel]

I have one, which we'll summarize.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, that's not a problem at all.

Go ahead.

[Ava Yaskiel]

The supplementary estimates (A) reflect a net increase in planned statutory expenditures of $488.7 million. The items are displayed in the supplementary estimates for information purposes and will not be included in the appropriation bill.

In addition, the estimates include $3.1 million in voted authorities under vote 1, program expenditures. Given these increases, total proposed authorities to date for the department are $94.5 billion.

If you'd like, I'll take you through just the major components of the expenditures. There is a $477.3-million increase for the Canadian Infrastructure Bank for capital and operating requirements identified in its corporate plan. There is an $11.4-million increase for the Canadian Securities Regulation Regime Transition Office for its operating activities in continuing support of the federal government's work to establish the co-operative capital markets regulatory system.

There is a new funding requirement for vote 1, program expenditures, of a total of $3.1 million, and that consists of capacity funding for $2 million for the Tsimshian First Nations in relation to divestiture of Ridley Terminals; a reprofile of $891,000 to continue work on a co-operative capital markets regulatory system initiative; funding of $156,000 for the administration of the P3 Canada fund investment portfolio; and finally, $99,196, which represents the department's portion of budget 2018's funding envelope to address issues in pay administration, the Phoenix surge payment.

I'm happy to take any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, we're open to any member who has a question.

Are there no questions?

Mr. Julian, go ahead.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Sorry, could you repeat the figure for the Phoenix pay system?

[Ava Yaskiel]

That's $99,196.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

That's $99,000 for...?

[Ava Yaskiel]

That's for our department. It was part of the surge funding to deal with some of the Phoenix issues.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Now, across the departmental budgets for supplementary estimates, what is the total cost allocated to Phoenix, given the size—

[Ava Yaskiel]

Across all departments...? I don't have that information on hand.

Do you have it?

[Dale Denny, Director, Financial Management and Reporting, Corporate Services Branch, Department of Finance]

Budget 2018 provided $25 million in 2018-19 for Phoenix, for the surge capacity. This was to increase support services to employees with pay issues within the departments and agencies serviced by the public service pay centre. The $99,000 represents the departmental portion of that $25 million.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You can look at that a little more, Peter, if you want, and I'll go to Mr. McLeod.

Mr. McLeod, go ahead.