Evidence of meeting #23 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cra.
A video is available from Parliament.
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
The reason it is not included in the report on plans and priorities is that it was tabled before the budget. We cannot add—
Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Commissioner, Finance and Administration Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Mr. Chair, we cannot adjust the report on plans and priorities when we have to produce it before the budget is announced. Those funds have not yet been announced and they are not public. The process means that these figures will be reflected in the next report on plans and priorities.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, Mr. Huppé.
We are dealing with those under the budget implementation act in terms of the numbers that both of you are talking about, the $440 million. There's no way they can be in the estimates or the other planning documents.
We'll move to the last series of questions.
Mr. Grewal.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Once again, thank you to all for joining us today.
I mentioned in the first round, as well, that for me the issue has always been about tax fairness and ensuring that Canadians, across the board, pay their fair share, whether corporate or personal. It doesn't matter where you come from. Everybody works really hard in this country.
We get an opportunity when we're back in our constituencies to meet with a lot of Canadians, such as blue collar workers working in factories, small businesses, taxi drivers, and truck drivers. Those are the types of people who come into our offices with problems with the CRA. Those are the people we want to help because they don't have the resources to hire a KPMG or a Deloitte who will pick up the phone, call the CRA, and get a response.
I know we've increased your budget, and I know the previous government really reduced your budget, and that had an impact. We all know about that.
I just want to know if we're really going to make a point of ensuring that the systems in the CRA are smoother for people to be able to pick up the phone, call a CRA officer, and come to a resolution on their tax issue. I think that's an extremely important part of your mandate, Minister.
Liberal
Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
I sincerely thank my colleague for his question.
In fact, client service is part of my mandate letter and one of the priorities of the Canadian government. We have already begun to put measures in place so that the correspondence we send people is easy to understand. We talked about telephone services earlier. We want to ensure that people are able to get responses much faster.
We have put a whole system in place for processing requests. When people have trouble paying what they owe the government, it is important to treat them well and make sure that everyone fulfills their obligations.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Minister.
I have one last question before I pass on my remaining time to the parliamentary secretary. You may not know this off the top of your head.
Has there been a study done on how much your budget is increased—so, for every dollar we give to the CRA to carry out its mandate—and the net return on investment? Let's say it's $1 that we invest, and $1.50 that we get in tax. Do we have a number on how that works?
Assistant Commissioner, International, Large Business and Investigating Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
I think it varies on where the investment is made.
For example, budget 2015 provided us $200 million, and we had roughly a four-to-one return on investment. But we were deliberately focusing on the underground economy, small and medium enterprises, in order to have a level playing field for some of those contractors you referred to.
In budget 2016, we have a greater focus on multinationals and high net-worth individuals, so the ROI is around an average of six to one, so it's higher.
The ROI for the agency would vary from two to one to twenty to one depending on what strata we're focused on.
Liberal
Assistant Commissioner, International, Large Business and Investigating Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Yes.
Liberal
Liberal
François-Philippe Champagne Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
I just want to say for the record, Mr. Chair, that I heard a question from the honourable colleague on the other side, either Guy Caron or Pierre-Luc Dusseault.
When we talk about improving access, I refer you to budget 2016 on page 206. We have a whole paragraph. We have a page describing what we're going to do, exactly, to improve services at the agency.
We're proposing to invest $185.8 million over five years, and $14.6 million ongoing in the CRA. I won't take the time to read exhaustively what's in the budget, but obviously there's a whole page about what we're going to do, very specifically, to answer the question.
There is also a much more interesting question, for the people watching and listening to us. You are quite familiar with it, Minister.
In Budget 2016, one of the key measures concerning the Canada Revenue Agency is to have proactive activities to inform Canadian taxpayers and help them get the tax credits they are entitled to. We have heard a lot of testimony, or questions and comments, from our colleagues, on this point, and rightly so. I think this approach is diametrically opposed to what we may have seen in the past.
Could you tell us a little more about that, Minister? For the people following us at home, I think the fact that you and your representatives are going to help those people know what tax credits they are entitled to is one of the key measures in the budget.
Liberal
Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Yes, that is also part of client services. We are well aware that, in the case of the neediest or most disadvantaged clients, things having to do with the tax system are complicated. A lot of people did not have access to additional credits. The government is therefore truly committed to this. One of the CRA's priorities is to provide information when people call.
The CRA does not let people guess and search in this very complex system for the credits they are entitled to. When people call, we provide them with guidance in this regard.
The volunteer program is also designed this way. We want to enable people to get the money they are entitled to, to improve their quality of life.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
No, you are well over time, and Mr. McColeman has one.
I do want to say in this exchange though—and I don't know if every MP's office is the same—I can't thank the people who we call at CRA in our office enough in terms of how they help us help our constituents when they have problems and come through our office. I just want you to know that.
Mr. McColeman.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you for that, Mr. Chair, I really appreciate your comment, frankly, because I'm a little disturbed at the comment that was just made by the parliamentary secretary, which implied that the outreach didn't happen under previous governments. Not only our government before that, but successive governments over the last 20 years have had nothing but praise for CRA in terms of their outreach to make sure that people actually are informed. Sometimes they are proactive in the sense that they send notices to people to ask if they know they could get this additional claim, so thank you for that hard work. It's not diametrically opposed, as he characterized it, to what this government is going to move forward with.
I want to make that point because it is upsetting that he would accuse you and previous governments of not reaching out to help constituents. In my office I help over 300 needy people get their tax returns done and many other MPs do that as a service to reach out to help people get the kinds of credits they deserve. I have one simple question and that is to the minister.
Can you guarantee that the rollout of all the changes that are going to be made to the tax credit system, some removed from the previous system and some being completely taken away, the child arts tax credit and such, to move to the new system will be seamless and will you guarantee that people will not have interruptions to the receiving of their benefits?
Liberal
Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
According to my information, and from my experience working with my representatives, the important thing for us is that people receive the services they are entitled to and the benefits they are entitled to. I am very happy about what has been announced by our government. At the CRA, everything is in place so that starting in July, people will be able to receive the Canada child benefit. These measures have been put in place by our government to enable people to have a better quality of life and to receive the money they are entitled to.
As I said a little earlier, I am a social worker. I come from a remote region. I am very familiar with disadvantaged populations, seniors, and people with little formal education. I know very well that these people do not all receive the services they are entitled to.
We have to reach out to those people. We have to offer services to people in remote regions, like Nunavut. Canadians do not all live in cities.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay, thank you, Madam Minister.
We're going to have to cut it there, or we will not get to vote on the estimates. That would not be a good thing.
Thank you very much, Minister, and witnesses. It's not too often we have a minister for two hours with two written presentations. That's pretty good.
Thank you all.
Turning to the votes on estimates then.
CANADA REVENUE AGENCY Vote 1—Operating expenditures, contributions and recoverable expenditures..........$3,032,118,914 Vote 5—Capital expenditures and recoverable expenditures..........$37,066,000
(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)
Shall I report the main estimates 2016-17 to the House?
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
If you seek it, I hope you will find unanimous consent for the following motion. If not, I give notice that I will be presenting it.
That the committee invite Mark Machin, the new President and Chief Executive Officer of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board, as well as Heather Munroe-Blum, Chairperson of CPPIB's Board of Directors, to appear as witnesses as soon as possible after the beginning of his mandate.
NDP
Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I don't see any problem with the motion itself. Could we consider this to be a notice of motion that we will vote on when we return after the constituency week? I don't think it is urgent.
