Finance Committee on May 31st, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Could we come to order. Thank you.

Pursuant to order of reference of Tuesday, May 10, 2016, Bill C-15, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 22, 2016, and other measures, today, we're to start clause-by-clause study.

Before we do that, the third report of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure was passed around to members, as members who were on that subcommittee would know. We met yesterday, and we made some decisions as a subcommittee that we will now put to the committee so this can be dealt with.

Do I need to read it?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would move the adoption of the report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Moved by Mr. McKinnon.

It was agreed by the subcommittee that in relation to the motion of Guy Caron, the committee agreed to amend the amendment of Steven MacKinnon. I'll not go through all the words, but we proposed a list of witnesses for the KPMG study. That's point one.

Point two is that the committee agreed to the motion by Mr. McColeman that the Standing Committee on Finance invite the parliamentary budget officer to appear on or before June 16, 2016, for two hours, to provide testimony and answer questions on recent reports.

Point three is that the committee agreed to a motion by Mr. MacKinnon that the committee invite Mark Machin, the new president and chief executive officer of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board, as well as Heather Munroe-Blum, chairperson of the CPPIB board of directors, to appear as witnesses as soon as possible after the beginning of his mandate.

Point four is that we agreed on the theme of the pre-budget consultations for the 2017 budget. I'll not read them. They are on the record that we would look at gaining economic growth in the country, and we would issue a news release to that effect on this Friday. The clerk will provide the committee with the different options to consider in organizing hearings with witnesses and travel in the fall of 2016.

It's been so moved. Is there any discussion?

Mr. Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to clarify publicly that I am still in favour of the original motion I submitted. I believe it would have been desirable to invite the people whose names appeared on the list we received from KPMG. That is, the people who took part in this scheme for the company.

However, I recognize that the subcommittee's decision was to propose an amended list of witnesses that included the names of some experts. I was not in favour of the proposed amendment, but I voted for it so that at least we could have a meeting with those experts, with a representative of the chartered professional accountants, and with Michael Hamerley, a former associate with KPMG in the United States. It was he who sounded the alarm, who drew attention to the similar situation that was going on with our neighbours to the south.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there any further discussion on the subcommittee report that's before you?

(Motion agreed to)

Starting on clause-by-clause study, in terms of clause 1, pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1, the short title, is postponed.

We'll start with clause 2. There are no amendments from clause 2 to clause 32. Does somebody want to discuss them as a block?

Mr. Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I would like to take out some clauses, so that we can discuss them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You'd like to do what?

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I would like some clauses not to be grouped together, so that we can discuss them. The clauses in question are 7, 9, 10, 13, 22, 26 and 27.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes, Mr. Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Could you repeat the clause numbers?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll go through them one by one.

They are clauses 7, 9, 10, 13, 22, 26, and 27.

Could we have a motion to group clauses 2 to—

[An hon. member]

Does it need to be unanimous?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes, we'd need unanimous consent on account of moving a motion.

Could we have unanimous consent to group clauses 2 to 6?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

(Clauses 2 to 6 inclusive agreed to)

(On clause 7)

Mr. Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

The intent of this clause is to increase the eligibility of exploration expenses in Canada. This seems to go contrary to the Canadian government's commitment to gradually withdraw subsidies for energy from fossil fuels. This is a new subsidy that the Conservatives proposed, but the Liberals have not really explained why they are continuing along those lines.

So these are the aspects that I wanted to make public and that express our disagreement with this clause.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there discussion?

Mr. Ouellette, and then Mr. Champagne.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

It's just a question.

I can't hear you very well in this room. I'm hoping that they can turn up the speakers, because this room seems to have a terrible speaker system. I know there's the earpiece, but I've never used it before. I couldn't hear what clause you are doing. I apologize.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Clause 7.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It's clause 7.

Mr. Champagne.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

For the benefit of the member, our position has been to phase out the tax credit for fossil fuel. I think that's what you're referring to. The position we have taken in the bill is very consistent with our commitment to phase them out in accordance with our international agreements with the OECD and G7 partners in that respect.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Liepert.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

I think it's important that we go on record to correct what the NDP member referred to as a subsidy. It is not a subsidy; it is a tax credit, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there any further discussion?

(Clause 7 agreed to on division)

(Clause 8 agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Caron, did you have a point you wanted to raise on clause 9?