Finance Committee on May 31st, 2016

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Going back to the definition of “deferred”, according to Merriam-Webster it is “withheld for or until a stated time”.

Last night in testimony, the minister indicated, “We've decided...at this stage it's deferred and if there's future information provided we will certainly provide it to you.”

He said, “I have no further information at this time to answer that question”, meaning that there is no time associated with the term “deferred”. Therefore it is not an appropriate use of the term “deferred”. It is indeed cancelled.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I would like to respond very quickly to Mr. Champagne's comments.

In his argument to me, he is clearly comparing apples to oranges. The Liberal Party made commitments about taxing individual taxpayers, and also about the Canada Child Benefit. That is one thing. Then, additional commitments were made about taxing SMEs. So to say that there is no need to honour the commitment to SMEs because commitments have been made to individuals makes no sense.

The fact is that, during the election campaign, the Liberal Party program said that it would reduce the tax rate for SMEs from 11% to 9%. The three parties had a similar platform. Now, in this budget implementation bill, the only thing kept is the first cut of 0.5% that was already scheduled in the previous budget; the sections in the Income Tax Act that deal with subsequent reductions have been eliminated. Those are the facts.

Consequently, the Liberal Party arguments make no sense.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

The NDP is out of time.

Is there any further discussion?

We want a recorded vote. Shall the amendment carry?

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll take it.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I'd just like you to actually rule to Mr. MacKinnon that their question cannot be called in committee. In calling the question all the time, I don't think he realizes he's wasting his breath.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, that's fine. There are lots of new members here.

(Amendment negatived: nays, 5; yays, 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

On NDP-2, we have Mr. Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much.

This amendment proposes reducing the tax rate for SMEs by one quarter of a percentage point for next year, by half a percentage point for the following year and by three-quarters of a percentage point for 2019. That would allow us to achieve the objective on which the three parties agreed during the election campaign, to reduce the tax rate for SMEs to 9% from 11%, for the same reasons.

Once again, I would have a hard time understanding if the government members were to vote against that amendment, given that it involves a commitment made in black-and-white in their election program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. McColeman, and then Mr. Champagne.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

For the same reasons as I articulated previously, this is just another way to get there, and I would hope it's a little more palatable to the government. It makes a lot of sense to the small business community.

I have correspondence and have had many discussions with small businesses. This correspondence comes from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business: how important it is to their members, the cost to their businesses that they're planning, investments into their companies. A commitment is a commitment. A promise is a promise. The government can slough it off and say that more people spend money at businesses because they have the child benefit, but that's a pretty weak argument for companies that drive this economy and employ over 80% of the people in this country and could hire more people if they had this incentive in place.

I completely support the NDP trying to get there through this amendment.

Mr. Chair, I would also like to call for a recorded vote on this particular amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll do a recorded vote when we get there.

Mr. Champagne.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I want to state for the record and to my colleagues that this government has honoured its commitment to the middle class by reducing taxes for nine million Canadians, by providing more money—an average of $2,300—to nine families out of 10. I can assure you that if the middle class is doing well in this country, small businesses will do well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I've been very lenient here. This isn't your motion, Mr. Johns, so I'm going to stick with Mr. Caron.

Are you okay with that?

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

To speak, you mean?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

My honourable colleague talked about nine million Canadians benefiting from the middle-class tax cut. Some 17.9 million Canadians aren't going to benefit from that tax cut. There's also a small business community. These are the people who are building our communities, and they were given a promise that you are going to give them a 2% tax break. You're failing to deliver on that promise. Here's an opportunity to break it down over the next four years to ensure you deliver on your promise.

I think this is a very reasonable opportunity for government to give certainty to small business and ensure that the government is fulfilling the promise, although it would be delayed. You knocked on their doors. You promised chambers of commerce and the Canadian Federation of Independent Business that you were going to deliver. This is an opportunity to come back to small business and say that you're going to deliver on the promise you made to them, and all those people who are left out in your proposal right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there any further discussion?

We will have a recorded vote on NDP-2.

(Amendment negatived: nays 5; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

On clause 34, Mr. Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I'd like a recorded vote.

(Clause 34 agreed to: yeas 5; nays 4)

(On clause 35)

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

There is an amendment, NDP-3.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

This time I will let Mr. Angus have the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think it's been 11 years since I sat at a committee with you. It's nice to see you again. Let's not wait another 11 years before we meet again—two sword lengths away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We're sitting right across from each other, Charlie.