Finance Committee on June 16th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Ms. Quach.

I see no other debate. All those in favour of the motion? Maybe I had better read it out.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

I would just like to ask that the vote be recorded.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes, okay.

The motion is:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Finance undertake a study on the benefits and potential impacts of introducing a guaranteed minimum income, and that the Committee report its findings to the House by Friday, February 17, 2017.

It is a recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 3)

Mr. MacKinnon.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I have a motion for the committee. For clarification, we're under committee business, are we not, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Okay.

I'm happy to let folks read it, if needed.

Mr. Chair, this committee is anticipating tremendous challenges when in returns in the fall, namely, the prebudget consultations that we approved today and that you so carefully planned, as well as the motion we adopted two days ago regarding housing, a very important issue for Canada. Finally, we will hear from representatives of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board, if only briefly.

This motion is therefore part of a very busy agenda. That is why I did not indicate a deadline. This is perhaps our most important role in the important work we have to do.

Canada has not conducted a thorough review of the Income Tax Act in decades. I would suggest therefore, in very general terms, that we begin this work and call experts and key stakeholders. Stakeholders have repeatedly told us how out of date the act is, and that there are shortcomings with respect to fairness, complexity and competitiveness with the rest of the world.

After lengthy discussions with my colleagues on this side of the table, with you, and with my colleagues on the other side of the table, with whom I must say I have enjoyed working during the first session of this Parliament, I am tabling this motion before we adjourn. I would like this motion to be adopted so we can get to work as soon as we return.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there any further discussion?

Ms. Quach.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This is indeed a study that we are in favour of and that we have discussed with some stakeholders.

I would simply like to know how many meetings the members would like to devote to this study when the House returns, since the prebudget consultations will also be under way.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

It is of course a lengthy undertaking. That is why I took a general approach. I suppose this will be addressed by the sub-committee, of which your colleague Mr. Caron is a member. Days will have to be set aside for the study. It might of course take many meetings, but there is a lot of other work that I think is equally important, specifically the prebudget consultations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I might say that under the pre-budget hearings we have a legislated mandate that we have to meet certain deadlines. We have to have that report by December. Some of these other motions will have to fit in after that, unless there's specific legislation.

Ms. Raitt and then Mr. Sorbara.

[Lisa Raitt, Conservative, Milton, ON]

Mr. Chair, we support the notion of studying the Income Tax Act. I think my colleague and I would appreciate the opportunity. I want to point out, Mr. Chair, when the subcommittee considers this, that we do have a motion with respect to the housing market.

I anticipate that the income tax one will take a bit of time, and we should take a bit of time because it's so complex. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that we may have something that's a front burner issue, and that we could probably get some good information out to lawmakers.

Just for your consideration, we're going to support the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I think we understand that.

Mr. Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I want to second what my colleague has stated. I think it behooves us to undertake a review of the Income Tax Act and look at all aspects of taxation, whether it's on the personal side or the corporate side. As the motion says, we do need a competitive tax system globally that allows and fosters an environment where companies can invest and create jobs, that allows for innovation to occur, that allows Canadians to go out there with confidence to get good jobs, and that allows them to raise their families with confidence and good futures.

I'm all for this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are there any last comments?

(Motion agreed to)

It will be turned over to the subcommittee.

Is there any other business?

That is it.

I want to mention that Ms. Raitt gave me a sad note. An MP in Britain has been shot and killed, seemingly over her position on whether Britain stays in or leaves the EU. I guess you consider her a colleague who takes a public position. To me it shows the camaraderie among elected people anywhere, and I think it's a moment of sadness for us all.

Robert.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Will this be our last meeting then?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We don't know. It depends on what happens in the House. We don't know. It could be.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Are we going to be hearing from the analysts about the report?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

On KPMG?

Do you want to tell us where you are on the study, Michaël?

[Michaël Lambert-Racine, Committee Researcher]

We're still aiming for distribution of the draft report by next Tuesday.

If the House is still sitting, we may be able to meet the following Thursday to discuss the draft report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It's unlikely we'll be meeting on Thursday. In any event, if the analysts are able to have the report by Tuesday, the committee will have a look at it.

The other point we need to consider is recommendations for that report. I don't want to set a deadline as yet, because I think we need to see the report before we get to recommendations. I would suggest that people think about ideas on recommendations, so we're ready to put recommendations in the report as soon as we get that far.

Mr. Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I would like to talk about Mr. MacKinnon's motion. We are not opposed to it. A number of witnesses have suggested looking at simplifying taxation. The Income Tax Act is now over 3,000 pages long. I think 1,000 pages were added in the last Parliament.

It is a very general motion for the time being. We will be reviewing the act, so we would like to gain an overview. I wonder whether the Standing Committee on Finance will really have the time to do something meaningful in this regard, given its mandate. We already have the prebudget consultations, which will take up a good part of the fall. I suppose there will also be a budget implementation bill, which will mean a month of work easily. Then we stop in the middle of December and don't return until the end of January. We will then have to prepare for the release of the budget, which is usually at the end of February or in March. The budget implementation bill will then follow, which we are finishing up now.

So that leaves very few meetings. Moreover, that does not include other motions that might be adopted, such as Mr. McColeman's motion pertaining to real estate and rising prices.

I am not opposed to the spirit of the motion; on the contrary, it will be very interesting work. I am concerned though that it might not be realistic to think that we can really do a thorough study given the limited time and resources available to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I think that as well was mentioned just a moment ago by others, Mr. Caron, that it is something the subcommittee will have to have a look at. The housing motion request is pretty pertinent. I think when we make the decisions on how we handle the workload on the committee, we'll be into the fall and we'll be able to schedule accordingly at that time.

Mr. Ouellette.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Chair, we opened with a song at one meeting, so I thought I would end with a song. It would be a good mourning song as well for our colleague in England. It's a very traditional song called 49er, meaning that 50 warriors went off to war, and 49 came home and one did not. It's a good song. It's also a round dance, by the way. We could hold hands; no one would see us on the camera:

When the sun sets over the world, I'll be thinking of you. No matter where you are, I still love you just the same. Heya heya heya ho, heya heya heya ho.
When the sun sets over the world, I'll be thinking of you. No matter where you are, I still love you just the same. Heya heya heya ho, heya heya heya ho.
When the sun sets over the world, I'll be thinking of you. No matter where you are, I still love you just the same. Heya heya heya ho, heya heya heya ho.
When the sun sets over the world, I'll be thinking of you. No matter where you are, I still love you just the same. Heya heya heya ho, heya heya heya ho.

That is in honour of our colleague in the United Kingdom whom we lost.

May you all have a wonderful summer in security and safety, and may we see each other in September in good health and in good spirits.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

That is a good note to end on. Thank you, Robert.

The meeting is adjourned.