Finance Committee on Sept. 20th, 2016

[Kent Estabrooks]

If that were to happen, that would have a very significant impact on the province of New Brunswick, not only because of the numbers that I indicated to you because there are other manufacturing and value-added processes beyond what I indicated here in the numbers. In fact, New Brunswick is one of the most forest-dependent provinces in the country.

In addition, the softwood lumber agreement affords an exemption to Maritime producers in terms of their quota, which isn't imposed in the Maritime provinces as a result of the fact that many of the woodlots are privately owned and not crown owned. We've been able to export without concern over quota.

It would have a very significant impact. Again, my mind immediately goes to the need if we're going to be competitive in this area, some of the same things we're talking about today are still our focus in terms of innovation, productivity improvement, making sure that these companies can sustain their market share in a global economy.

We are helped somewhat by a low Canadian dollar in that sector, exports that buffer us against duties and taxes. We remain competitive in that respect. Should there be any change in that, there will be a heightened requirement to look at those industries very carefully and to make sure that they don't go through a significant adjustment.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

In some ways, it parallels what happened to our beef farmers when we were shut out of the American market because of the BSE situation. Of course, that meant a complete adjustment within the beef producers. Our chair, knowing agriculture as well as he does, would know the numbers of decrease or the downturn that happened when we were shut out of the American market because of that. This is somewhat of a parallel in many ways; there are significant things on the horizon that could greatly affect your economy.

Again, bringing it back to why we're here, pre-budget consultation, do you have any redirects of where you could take the people who are employed in that industry into other areas if the government were to fund programs for the adjustment of such a decline?

[Kent Estabrooks]

We do have experience in administering adjustment programs over the years. We've done this on numerous occasions. We have some experience to draw on in terms of how to best do that. We will be monitoring the situation very closely. I'm missing the data on the exact nature of the types of individuals and their skills that are employed in their various facets. I believe we've done an exhaustive analysis of where those people could find themselves employed elsewhere in the economy at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Mr. McColeman.

Mr. MacKinnon, for five minutes.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Estabrooks and Mrs. Hatt Kilburn, thank you for coming to Ottawa to meet with us.

I will continue along the same lines as my colleague, Mr. Easter, the chair of the committee, who talked about Atlantic Canada.

You mentioned an alarming figure on the decrease in the workforce and the age of those in the labour market.

I also note that the Atlantic Canada governments—and I mean “governments”—are constantly promoting immigration as a remedy and as a solution to this problem. Clearly, it is important to find economic and employment opportunities for newcomers.

Could you please briefly answer these questions? To what extent do you participate in this immigration initiative? According to your mandate, you must participate. You have briefly mentioned it. What are the employment opportunities for newcomers when they arrive in Atlantic Canada?

[Kent Estabrooks]

Thank you for the question.

We are closely monitoring the pilot project and the Atlantic growth strategy. That initiative was announced in July. We are participating in the discussion. I am not saying that we don’t participate in discussions with the provinces beforehand. For a long time, we have talked about immigration as a solution for New Brunswick.

I know my colleague has participated in a number of those discussions. I can perhaps give her the floor.

[Kalie Hatt-Kilburn]

We have an important role to play in the development of communities and in their capacity to welcome and integrate immigrants. We have projects and programs that can support initiatives like that.

We also work with organizations that provide services to immigrants. For example, a group has set up a project called “The Hive”. This project seeks to provide training to entrepreneur immigrants to introduce them to the business environment in Canada and to help them and their families to better adapt to the culture of the provinces.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I know that, in the past, New Brunswick's governments have successively and extensively advocated for energy development, especially in Saint John, as an opportunity for economic diversification.

Can you tell us where New Brunswick is at in terms of developing its energy sector?

[Kent Estabrooks]

You mean the energy sector?

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Yes.

[Kent Estabrooks]

We are still closely following the Energy East project. We know that the approval process is currently under way. There is a review of the economic benefits and environmental impacts, which must also be factored in.

As for the project—

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Does the development of the energy sector depend on Energy East, or are there some independent projects?

[Kent Estabrooks]

Other than the clean technologies I mentioned earlier or the development of the smart grid, no other examples come to mind.

[Kalie Hatt-Kilburn]

If you don’t mind, I will answer in English.

He did speak earlier to clean technology and did reference the smart grid project. We're working very closely with New Brunswick Power and with the University of New Brunswick on that project, but it's more than just a research project. NB Power set a renewable energy target of 40% by 2020, so there is an important opportunity for small-scale renewable projects to spring up around the province. That research partnership that he referenced is important because of the interoperability of all of those different renewable sources.

We are working very closely on that project, but more, also through that Smart Grid Innovation Network, they are working with small businesses in New Brunswick that have new products and services that they want to test to be smart grid compliant on the Siemens grid. The goal is to allow that to become a springboard to international sales for them because they'll be able to demonstrate they are compliant with that technology.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thanks to both of you.

Mr. Liepert.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Thank you for coming today.

I really have just one question. It's probably a yes or no answer on your part.

If we could speed along the process of getting a pipeline to Saint John so we could refine Alberta petroleum products in Saint John, which would go a long way not only to creating jobs for building a pipeline through New Brunswick but also to potential diversification opportunities in Saint John in petrochemicals, whatever they could be, that would go a long way in alleviating the frustrations the chairman just expressed to you. Would that be a good thing for New Brunswick?

[Kent Estabrooks]

There are significant impacts that we would anticipate should the energy east pipeline get approved, and in particular, an impact on GDP for New Brunswick of approximately $1 billion, and some significant job numbers as well in terms of development phase jobs. We expect in the area of 740 in construction phase jobs, 1,450 approximately, and then the ongoing operation of the pipeline at 200 or so jobs on an ongoing basis.

That said, ACOA's role in terms of helping and making that the most impactful for the economy in New Brunswick is—

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Thank you. You've answered my question. Then it should behoove us as a committee to recommend to the government that they speed along this process. Would that also be fair?

[Kent Estabrooks]

The process—

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Mr. Liepert.

I don't think you want to get into that one, Mr. Estabrooks. We have a couple of minutes left. I do have one question. To be quite honest with you, I don't know which of the vice-presidents of ACOA to ask. Because you're from New Brunswick, I'll ask you.

It relates to the organizational structure, not to the fact that you're under innovation now, but to the organizational structure of ACOA itself. We're not meeting with the overall president of ACOA.

I know that in the Charlottetown shop there are 52 full-time equivalents, I believe, or around there. You operate the New Brunswick shop. Then there's Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. There is also the regional office of ACOA. How many full-time equivalents would you have in your shop?

[Kent Estabrooks]

In New Brunswick, we have approximately 100.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'm told there are 300 people in Moncton. Is that correct?

[Kent Estabrooks]

No, not since the deficit reduction action plan from 2003 and the strategic review before that. I believe that may have been the number prior to that. It currently stands at approximately 205 for head office in Moncton.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Two hundred and five?