Finance Committee on Sept. 20th, 2016

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

So you have projects under way in that area.

Are you involved in other projects that could help Alberta diversify with regard to energy?

[Jim Saunderson]

One of the major areas that our department has been focused on is what we call clean tech, which is sometimes devoted to energy, but other times beyond that. Since 2013 we've approved some 29 clean tech projects, with a value of about $40 million, really looking at making a great difference in the environment here in Alberta. And most of these products also have the potential for export. I think that's an important consideration; it's not just exporting the energy but exporting the technology as well.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to quote a passage from your document. It states as follows:

The new Innovation Agenda being spearheaded by the Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development will support these and many other opportunities for growth and diversification in the province.

What specific commitments and initiatives would you like to see as part of the innovation agenda to support Alberta in particular? Although we are talking in general terms now, if you had specific recommendations to give the minister as to the direction of this program, what would the priority be or what would your first two recommendations be?

[Jim Saunderson]

Thank you for your questions.

I think we have to work with the provincial government and certain institutions such as universities. We have two major universities, the University of Alberta and the University of Calgary, that have strong expertise in certain areas.

I think here it's not just our department alone that will make the difference. We need to work completely in collaboration with our provincial colleagues. The provincial government, for example, right now is in the process of bringing together formally...they used to have a half-dozen Alberta Innovates corporations and they're bringing them together into one. We have a good relationship with them and we want to lever that. We work extensively with the National Research Council's IRAP program.

What is that, James?

[James Meddings, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Strategic Direction (Ottawa), Department of Western Economic Diversification]

Industrial research assistance program.

[Jim Saunderson]

In fact, what we find is that in many cases it's IRAP graduates who have become the recipients of our western innovation programming. In some cases we're co-funding with the provincial government. A lot of these companies are in fact spinoffs from the universities. I think your question is on the right track. You really need to take a look at the innovation system. James was just saying about one in four of our wind companies are former IRAP recipients.

[James Meddings]

Correct, but also generally around the wind program itself it is a very heavily oversubscribed program. We can support one of every 11 applications we receive. A significant number of those applications are in the clean tech sector. This is across Western Economic Diversification. So going forward the fact that we are unable to support many good projects in this area is an issue, but one we could address with additional funding.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I think I have a minute and a half or two minutes left. I will ask you one final question.

I would like to look at agriculture again, but this time focus more specifically on grain.

Has the abolition of the Canadian Wheat Board and the rail transportation problems, which were likely indirectly related to the abolition, had an impact in Alberta in particular? Have you seen a positive or negative impact or factors that caused you to take action with certain farmers in the industry?

[Jim Saunderson]

To be honest, I'm not sure I could put my finger on an impact through the abolition of the Canadian Wheat Board. It has happened, it's in the past, and I think the industry has moved on. We continue to have lots of wheat and other products, and they will find their way to market.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Let me reformulate my question.

Did you need to take action to help the wheat industry transition following this decision?

The second part of my question also concerned transportation problems. Did you need to take action in that area? If so, what can you recommend for the future?

[Jim Saunderson]

For us, the transportation of wheat or other agricultural products is not the only thing at stake. The issue is the opportunity to transform agricultural products into value-added products.

For example, one of the projects we were involved in recently was pet food, which has about a $96-billion a year global market. It was to bring some equipment into the University of Alberta that small companies could use to make test runs of their food products, equipment that they could not otherwise afford to use, prove that they've got their technology right, that they can make this kind of pet food, get it into market, test it in market, and then having done that, raise the capital privately to move forward. I really think the future is value added, and not just hopper cars of grain going to the coast.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both.

Mr. Ouellette.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Saunderson, for coming here today. I very much appreciate it.

I was wondering how many indigenous companies have been founded in the last few years by Western Economic Diversification in Alberta.

[Jim Saunderson]

Most of our work in the indigenous community has not been with direct assistance to companies, but the community is a really important part of the equation. Maybe three examples of projects that we have funded recognize that when indigenous peoples have the same opportunities as other Canadians, particularly through education and training, they succeed as other Canadians do. One of my favourite examples is an organization called Women Building Futures, which works with women, 20% of whom are indigenous, and provides them the training that enables them to succeed in the construction sector, which is the second largest sector in the Alberta economy.

When I think of this example, I think back; we did an announcement, there was some funding, and a construction foreman who probably more or less met your stereotype of an Alberta construction foreman—

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

How many companies have been started by Western Economic Diversification in Alberta?

[Jim Saunderson]

Our assistance to indigenous companies is provided mostly indirectly. The Canada Business Network, the business link in Edmonton, provides assistance to thousands of companies. I don't know, Ryan, if you can find a number for the jobs created in indigenous communities, let's say over the last five years.

[James Meddings]

Since 2013, not just in Alberta, we've supported 10 indigenous economic growth projects with about $13-million worth of investment. A lot of those projects have been focused on skills in trades. I believe the number is about 750 skilled or trade jobs created in indigenous communities across western Canada.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

So 10 projects since 2013, but how many of those jobs still exist today? If you're training someone for skills in trades that don't exist anymore, I see a problem in that.

You mentioned you offer services for indigenous peoples, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Do those jobs still exist today to your knowledge? Once those skills are attained they can certainly move around to other fields where the skill—

[James Meddings]

We don't have numbers on how many of those jobs are still...but as you said, these projects are helping to train people in large vehicle work. This is mobile. We would expect and hope that people trained in these skills programs would have the ability to find work outside Alberta if they've been impacted by the oil price issue.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I was just wondering if you could also supply information on the makeup, for instance, if it's Métis, first nations, or non-status. What actually stops investment in indigenous communities? What's impeding western development from getting into these communities and actually creating jobs, companies that actually produce something and are able to export it to Taiwan or China or South America or something?

[Jim Saunderson]

Probably the biggest success that we have with directly creating jobs, if you'll forgive me, it's actually indirectly, is through our support of the Community Futures corporations. They're all separately incorporated, not-for-profit organizations in rural parts of western Canada. Seven of them deal exclusively with indigenous peoples. In Alberta, it's the Treaty 7 Community Futures. It deals exclusively with the first nations people who are members of the Treaty 7 first nations.

I don't have the figures for them right at hand—my colleague might be able to find them—but we could certainly provide you later on with the number of loans that each of these Community Futures corporations have made, all of which would account for the creation of a new company, owned by an indigenous operator, and with a certain number of jobs created that would, obviously, vary a little bit from company to company.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I was just wondering what actually stops investment. I hear a lot about training programs. I always hear about training programs. We're always training aboriginal people in this country for something, for new jobs. We're always trying to set up a new education system somewhere. I used to do it at the University of Manitoba.

What's actually impeding you? Or do they come to see you, saying, “We need $2 million. This is our project. This is something we'd like to do. We'd like to set up a cattle company.” What actually impedes that from occurring?

[Jim Saunderson]

It's a good question. There are, of course, a number of organizations out there, aboriginal financial corporations. I've touched on Community Futures. There are others that are active in Alberta, like Apeetogosan, that works with the Métis people and the Alberta Indian Investment Corporation—I think there are four or five of them across the province—that are capitalized and specifically make loans to their various client groups.

The best example I have of us directly working with first nations, and I have to admit it's a British Columbia example, but I kind of like it, was to take advantage of the opportunities for indigenous tourism. A number of first nations in British Columbia, that are operators of various kinds of tourist attractions, have banded together and created a marketing package to sell this as an experience to international visitors to attract them to Canada. That's actually good for those first nations, and, in fact, good for Canada's balance of payments. I think there are opportunities for more of those kinds of activities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Liepert.