Evidence of meeting #79 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

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On the agenda

MPs speaking

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4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I certainly appreciate Mr. Deltell's motion and the opportunity for us to discuss this publicly. Like Mr. Sorbara, I want to see corporate responsibility, but further than that I actually want to see responsible government.

Responsible government depends on the grassroots, individual Canadians who elect members of Parliament to be powerful, to come here, and to hold the government to account regardless of their party. If you're not formally in government, as in the cabinet, you have a responsibility to hold your government to account.

The best way to do that, I would suggest to my honourable members across the way, is to have a motion like this supported, and the reason being is that there's anger, as Mr. Fergus has said. Yes, there is, Mr. Chair, in my riding especially.

People don't like the idea that government money, which is their money, their tax dollars, is going to supply programming that will then offset executive compensation. They don't like it when governments are unaccountable and simply say, “We're disappointed but it's a free market. We don't bear any responsibility,” when it just isn't so. We want to see transparency.

Have the minister come in here and explain how the program works. Have the minister explain why there weren't accountability functions—like what happened with Air Canada under Minister Flaherty—with specific language around executive compensation to make sure that when government, again, taxpayer money goes to a private corporation, there are protections to make sure that it doesn't go to ends that do not serve the public, but only the private, in this case, those executives.

I do realize that some members have reservations about this. I'm not going to lecture on what the politics are. They know very well. I just would say that it is our job as members of Parliament to hold the government to account.

This is a government program, and just like we had concerns on this committee on tax expenditures and whether they were effective or not.... We even have a Prime Minister who says he didn't feel that the tax credit they cancelled in this year's budget was effective. Maybe we need to put on the table that this particular program, the way this government is running the contracts and not including those accounting provisions, is also faulty and is also not effective.

Again, I would just reinforce the point that this is what we are sent here to do. It's what my constituents want. It sounds like it's what many of our constituents want.

Going back to anger, no one is suggesting that we don't discuss it. In fact, we're actually talking about an orderly process set out by over 100 years—150 years soon—of parliamentary procedure to deal with the issues of the day. The great thing is that Canada is still standing, and I would say it's partly because our system does develop democratic, transparent means for us to deliberate issues of confidence in the government.

If members on the other side want to vote against increasing responsible government, transparency, and being able to look at their constituents and say, “You know what? There were some valid points. Let's take a look at it. Let's argue on the merits”.... Rather than arguing about the motion, Mr. Chair, we could argue when we actually get the facts from the relevant authorities and hold them to account.

As Mr. Deltell has said, perhaps Bombardier has not communicated. This would give them an opportunity to communicate. Perhaps the government might want to reconsider how it approaches not just this particular funding, but how it does this in the future. I would imagine that the taxpayer would benefit from that. I think our parliamentary system would benefit from that. It would show that the system works.

Last, Mr. Chair, we could again all go home and tell people that we came here to do our jobs, and we did that.

Anyway, it's something that a tweet cannot capture. It's something that a short speech cannot capture. I think our parliamentary report would be at least a substantial addition to the national conversation.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you very much, Mr. Albas.

I thank everyone for keeping the politics to a great degree out of this discussion.

Mr. Grewal is next, and then I hope we will go to the vote.

April 6th, 2017 / 4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all my colleagues for speaking on this motion. We rarely agree in committee, but I think we can agree that Bombardier was very much tone-deaf when it came to making this decision on executive compensation.

In my short 17 months as a member of Parliament, I've learned a lot. I've engaged with a lot of different stakeholders. Coming as a corporate lawyer, I was always against corporate bailouts. When it happened in 2008, I couldn't really get myself to believe in why the government was stepping in and bailing out those automakers, but if you take a step back and you look at the real-life impact on Canadian families of these policy decisions....

My family has always been in the taxi business. When Uber came in, I realized on a daily basis the impact of that, similar to that of a steel plant closing in Hamilton, as a lot of members of my community drive taxis. They saw their wages drop overnight by 50% or 60%. There was a real-life impact of trying to pay your mortgage payment, trying to pay your heating costs, trying to put food on the table and send your kids to university. Then I think about the 4,000 jobs that we're saving with this investment at Bombardier and the 1,300 more that we're creating, and the reasonable conditions under which this loan was given to this company.

Was it unfortunate? Are we disappointed with the company's lack of appreciation and the tone-deafness of this decision? Absolutely, I think we can all agree on that. I think the overall commitment of this government...and not just the Liberal government this time. Previous Conservative and Liberal governments supported the aerospace sector because it's an important sector in this country and it supports a lot of good Canadian jobs. I think that's something we should all be proud of.

Those are just my thoughts on this motion.

It's something that we can become uber-partisan about. We can play a lot of political games. Both parties are experts at that. There's no shortage of that in this room. Let's take a moment to put ourselves in the shoes of the families that we're going to be able to support through this investment that we're creating, those 4,000 jobs that we're maintaining and those 1,300 that we're going to be able to create.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you.

The final remarks will be from Mr. Deltell.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC

As final remarks, I just want to emphasize that the motion was not talking about Bombardier or the C series or investment. It was talking about remuneration granted to executives at Bombardier. We all agree that it's the worst remuneration granted to executives we have ever seen. We all agree that Bombardier is a great Canadian business. We all agree that C series aircraft should fly all around the world.

However, we have a duty as members of Parliament to ask questions of people who decide to loan hundreds of millions of dollars of Canadians' money to a business and to ask questions to this business that made such a tragic decision, the ugliest decision we have seen in many years.

Thank you.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

The motion is on the floor, and I expect there would be a call for a recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)

We will suspend for a few minutes to go in camera to deal with the recommendations for the housing report.

[Proceedings continue in camera]