Finance Committee on April 8th, 2020

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

THat's a good question. Thank you, Mr. Vidal.

Regarding that whole piece on the wage subsidy program and the limited partnership model, there is a gap. I think there should be a targeted, specific project or plan to deal with that gap that's been identified.

A lot of our businesses across Canada are going to be affected. I've heard from a number of chiefs in every territory and province that their first nations businesses are going to be affected by COVID-19. They've had to shut their doors, like a lot of businesses. Their rents are due. Their fixed costs have to be looked after. They can't maintain their employee base. It's going to be affecting them, no question. There is a gap.

In terms of having a conversation with the Minister of Finance, not at this point in time, but within the next few days we are planning to reach out to set up that time to talk with Minister Bill Morneau about this issue, and others as well going forward.

We still have to make our points in the upcoming federal budget as well. Everybody is consumed with COVID-19 right now, but at the same time we have to start thinking about the budgeting process for 2020-21, and again maintain the momentum for the continued investment in infrastructure, the green economy, child welfare, health care and water. All those things have to be there as well. We want to bring this point up in addition to the investments in the upcoming federal budget.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Vidal.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Mr. Helin, you've been very outspoken about your support for the natural resource production sector in the past, and the role that it can play in lifting first nations people out of poverty. We know, as we've heard many times already today, that because of the socioeconomic status of many first nations communities across Canada they are particularly vulnerable in this health crisis and the situation we find ourselves in right now.

The government has announced funding to be sent directly to first nations to help during this pandemic. What would you say are the long-term solutions to these vulnerabilities that these first nations communities find themselves in?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Mr. Helin.

[Calvin Helin]

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We have a technical glitch. Hopefully, Mr. Helin heard the question. We'll come back to that question later, if Mr. Helin gets back on.

We'll turn to Mr. Fragiskatos for a five-minute round, knowing we may have to come back to Gary Vidal.

Peter, go ahead.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses.

On March 18, the federal government announced $305 million for the indigenous community support fund for vulnerable community members. Measures to address food insecurity, education and other supports for children, mental health assistance and emergency response services and preparedness measures to prevent the spread of COVID-19 are the focus of that funding.

Since I am an urban-based MP, I want to ask Mr. Bellegarde and Mr. Chartrand about the urban indigenous focus here and whether they had any thoughts as it relates to COVID-19. Key points to keep in mind would be the health response and the economic response that are particularly unique to urban indigenous communities and populations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Do you want to go ahead, National Chief?

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Sure. Of the $305 million, there is $215 million for first nations, $35 million for the Inuit, $25 million for the Métis and $30 million for other indigenous organizations across Canada.

As I said earlier, because of the existing socioeconomic conditions of first nations people not only on reserve, but off reserve as well, it's a little better, but almost 50% of our people do reside off reserve, off our territories. We have to be mindful of that term “on and off reserve” because in the Yukon, there are no reserves, but there are 14 communities. The Dene in the Northwest Territories have two reserves, Salt River and Hay River. There are two up there. We have to make sure we're mindful and respectful of those two territories.

There aren't a lot of Indian reserves per se, first nation reserves. The point being made is that 50% of our people do reside in urban centres. There has to be a very clear and specific strategy when it comes to getting access to services and programs for that urban portion for housing, education and economic development programs as well. One can argue that there's an issue about portability of rights as well.

There's a formula now that we're trying to work towards for a new fiscal transfer between the Crown and first nations people. It's based on five elements that we're going to start to look at, that goes to the chiefs and councils.

If this comes to fruition, it will take care of the urban first nations population because it will go directly to the first nations governments themselves. It has to be, number one, treaty-based, and number two, have good relations with the Crown. It should be based on total membership on and off reserve, total citizenship. It has to keep up with inflation, consumer price indexing. It has to be based on need. The big one is going to be percentage of GDP on the land and resources that first nations people are sharing with all 38 million Canadians. We're sharing a lot of land and we're sharing a lot of resource wealth. Our reserves are on 0.02% of the land base.

If those five elements were put into a new fiscal relationship with the Crown, the urban portion would be looked after, but it's not there yet. The issue of portability of rights is going to be key. I think that's the biggest thing for everybody listening on the line, from a first nations perspective. You just have to look at the beautiful rich country called Canada and think about what the indigenous people are sharing with everybody. The land and resource wealth has to be taken into consideration.

In terms of the urban piece, more work needs to be done, no question. That is a very specific program. It has to be an accessible program in every province and territory because in some provinces and territories, tribal councils are a good valuable vehicle. They should be respected as should the friendship centres. You have to look at each province and territory unto themselves and what works best to be the most effective and efficient way to provide services and programs to those first nations people living in those cities.

Those are my comments on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Chartrand.

[David Chartrand]

First, thank you, Peter, for that question.

I want to express again that every time somebody asks a Métis question, we get very excited and very pleased that somebody is thinking about us.

Let me start off with the businesses.

You heard in my presentation that there are over 900 Métis businesses right now being affected by COVID-19 that we know of. We have put the suggestion to the finance committee to send it all the way through to the Minister of Finance and his department to give us the same opportunities you're giving other institutions, such as banks and credit unions, that you're protecting by ensuring that you will protect their loans as they move forward.

What we find, however, is that because the businesses have to be over $50,000, quite a large fraction of our businesses that will be affected will not be entitled to that opportunity, but if we can get the government to back us up, as with the banks and credit unions, there are hundreds of businesses we know we can immediately impact. We have our own cash in the banks right now. After 30 years of back-and-forth loans, we still have $17 million altogether. If today we emptied the bank accounts of the capital corporations in western Canada, we can bring out $17.3 million right now to help businesses, but we need assurances from the Government of Canada that they will back us up on these loans, given this unprecedented state that we're facing right now.

That's a key fundamental opportunity that exists there. I think it's a great opportunity for Canada to say, “Let's use every tool in the tool box.” We're sitting there with that kind of capital, but if we put it all out, and that's all we have and nobody is backing us up, we could be shutting down our own offices afterward and we won't even be there to help them. We're asking you if you can send a message to the Minister of Finance that this activation be given to the capital corporations.

My second point is on the health side, and I say this not to be a beggar. We never are. The Métis are a very proud people, a hard-working people, but I have to say that we do not have any health infrastructure at all.

We are very pleased with the position moving forward on health legislation that will deal with Daniels. Daniels is the court case that happened in 2015, which said that the Métis are being prejudiced by Canada and that it has to come to an end.

Clearly that legislation, I think, will find a balance in Canada, and I hope all parties will support it as we move forward. It will create a clear understanding that there has to be a strategy in this country. This pandemic or virus will probably not be the last one that's going to come and attack us the way this one has. Hopefully in our lifetime it will be, but I don't think it will be. The world is facing some new challenges, and we need to be ready for them.

We have changed the world. There is no question about it. We're going to have a different world when we come out of here. Things are going to be completely different, so we need to be planning ahead on health strategy right now, but it can't be that a certain portion of the population in this country will be left behind. It cannot be. I'm a Canadian, a proud Canadian. I pay taxes every year, like everybody else on this conference call right now, and it cannot be because of prejudice that we're left aside.

Peter, I thank you for the question. I hope that the legislation comes into place, but we shouldn't even be waiting for it. We should be jumping in right now.

Thank you, Mr. Easter, for allowing me an extra few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chartrand.

Is Mr. Helin back on the line? If you are, Calvin, did you hear Mr. Vidal's question? We'll give you time to answer it if you did. If not, I'll get him to do a quick summary.

[Calvin Helin]

Thank you.

Could he please re-ask the question?

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I just commented on your being an outspoken person on behalf of the natural resources sector and the opportunity it has in lifting many first nations people out of poverty.

We've talked about first nations being very vulnerable. My question was, quite briefly, what would you say are the long-term solutions you would offer to the vulnerabilities that are in these communities, maybe going back to that resource sector conversation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Calvin, could you keep it to about a minute? We need to get two more questions in.

[Calvin Helin]

Sure.

There is a Québécois songwriter called Félix Leclerc, and one of the lines in his song is “The best way to kill a man is to pay him for doing nothing”.

That rings true to all of us, because the way people validate their sense of self-worth is through the work they do. We have to have work that returns reasonable income and has other benefits to our communities. In the U.S., they proceeded forward with casinos in indigenous communities, and a couple of years ago those casino revenues exceeded $30 billion.

With our pipeline corridor operating with a full slate of pipelines, $30 billion is the amount of money that would be largely flowing to first nations in western and northern Canada. There is no other way we can do that, and the government can't create a situation to artificially create real wealth like that.

The unfinished business of Canada is integrating the indigenous people into the economy of the country where we are major players. We want to do that, but unfortunately government policy is standing in the way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, we'll end that one there.

We'll go to Mr. Schmale and Ms. Koutrakis. We'll have to go to four-minute questions each, please.

Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing.

I want to continue on the theme that we were on, basically focusing on the $305 million announced to help indigenous communities during the pandemic.

This was announced on March 18. On March 20, Minister Miller announced the details of how that $305 million fund will be divided and worked out. As I understand it, of that $305 million, $215 million is allocated for the Assembly of First Nations members, specifically the 334,000-plus first nations individuals living on reserve; $45 million is for Inuit, available to the 47,000-plus living in four Inuit homeland regions; we also have $30 million allocated for the Métis National Council communities and their 42,000 members in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia.

Now, that leaves about $15 million for almost 643,000 first nations individuals living off reserve, over half a million Métis not affiliated with MNC, and almost 18,000 Inuit outside of the four ITK regions.

Now, some of you have already publicly raised concerns this week about that funding formula. My question to the panel is this. If you have concerns—not as representatives of your individual organizations, if you don't want to, but just as indigenous people—given that there are vast swaths of first nations, Inuit and Métis people being left out of this formula, is there any message any of you have to the government to address this?

[David Chartrand]

If I may, Mr. Chair....

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, David.

[David Chartrand]

I apologize. I didn't get the name of the person asking the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It was Jamie Schmale.

[David Chartrand]

Again, I don't know where you got the 42,000 members. MMF alone has 54,000 voting members 18 and over at the federation, and that's not counting the children. So there are about 100,000 people just in MMF, under our government in Manitoba. Clearly, MNC represents 400,000 people in western Canada. That's not 42,000, so he might have made a slip on that statement, I hope.

Clearly, at the end of the day, there's definitely going to be a challenge in how you get the money around. That's why the Métis government has taken leadership roles here in Manitoba. We're actually sitting down with our friendship centres and we're giving them money up front, because they will eventually, hopefully, get money from Canada. They have food banks, and they have different ways of servicing the citizens—including some of mine but also some who are not ours.

Today, I think we hear the message loud and clear that this is not about one distinct people; it's about all Canadians. So we're moving forward fast on that issue. For example, we met with all the homeless institutions in Manitoba, whether it's the Salvation Army, the Siloam Mission, all of these big ones and small ones. Right now, for example, we're delivering close to 600 sandwiches to these small urban homeless outfits that are outside and operating in some form or fashion. For food banks, we're giving $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 to these food banks that are serving all Manitobans. The same thing is happening right across our homeland.

To your question, “Is there enough?”, there's probably never going to be enough, but clearly, at the end of the day, I think we need to start working together, set aside the differences of who we are, and start moving forward. As I said, I've already opened a 140-bed hospital institution in our construction camp, but it's open to all Manitobans and not just Métis, because I know that this is not a fight of our own; it's a fight for all of us.

I would say, again, that the Métis National Council does represent 400,000 people in western Canada, and I am sure that was a slip or mistake in the numbers when he said 42,000 people. And the rest of the people in eastern Canada, they are not Métis nation citizens, of course, but truly they should be helped in some form or some fashion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. We'll have to end that round there.

We'll close off with Ms. Koutrakis. The floor is yours.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for participating and presenting at today's committee meeting, and I hope that they and their families are holding up well during this global pandemic.

I have one question, which I will address to Chief Picard and Madam Sioui.

According to the Native Women's Association of Canada, the COVID-19 pandemic may increase the risk of gender-based violence against indigenous women and children.

Can you explain how the $10 million for emergency shelters will be used to maintain a safe and healthy environment for indigenous women and children in need?