Evidence of meeting #23 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was may.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Soren Halverson  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Andrew Marsland  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Suzy McDonald  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Andrew Brown  Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment, Department of Employment and Social Development
Evelyn Dancey  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Economic Development and Corporate Finance Branch, Department of Finance
Frank Vermaeten  Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Alexis Conrad  Assistant Deputy Minister, Learning Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Cliff C. Groen  Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Canada - Benefit Delivery Services Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. David Gagnon

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I think it was Marty who made the point about the charitable sector. I see an opportunity for them during the session we have on arts, culture and sport. It perhaps makes sense to put them on that panel.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

I don't think so. I personally see it as separate, but—

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

I think it would be the charity sector and not-for-profit sector, but I'm not sure how useful that would be. If we want to hear from music advocates or culture advocates or sport advocates, I think it makes sense to also include the needs, interests and concerns of those sectors within that large and rather general view. We could think of many examples of advocates that operate on a national stage, but that's just my view. I'm just trying to think of the most efficient way forward. I don't want to have us spinning our wheels.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

If we're still meeting on Tuesdays, we will wait until we get feedback from members about witnesses that are more related to finance issues. If we could get some feedback to the clerk fairly quickly on who they see as witnesses, then we will know how big our panels might be for a week and a half out.

With regard to the panel on Tuesday, which is basically the list that David has, we need people to pick their priorities off that list by tomorrow evening, because that Tuesday panel is not far away—

4:10 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. David Gagnon

Mr. Chair, if the lists could come before that, it would be better for us. Then we could start sending invitations tomorrow, just to make sure we have witnesses. I know it is not a lot of notice for members to give me the list, but it would be better.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We have a list to work from anyway, so that makes it easier. Members should just look at that list and put together their first six priorities from the list. Then, based on proportionality, the clerk can pull that together. Let's see if we can get that in first thing tomorrow morning.

Then what about next Thursday? We have two panels open there. What do we want to deal with? Even for those, we will have to have the list to the clerk by Sunday night.

We went through a number of areas. One was was arts, culture and sports. Another was fisheries.

Peter, I'm missing one that you said that I didn't make note of.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Are you talking to me or Peter Julian?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

It doesn't matter. It's both of you. It was Peter Julian I was thinking of, but what were you thinking of, Mr. Fragiskatos?

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

I thought you were asking me about the point I raised on culture and sport, when I suggested that we include within that group a voice from the not-for-profit charity sector to talk about technical issues that they may wish to bring up.

I think it's very complementary and it would be very efficient to proceed in that way.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

On Elizabeth's point earlier, I think Peter said we would need a whole panel for fisheries. I don't know if we do.

I have dealt with the fisheries industry for quite a while and I know they have nowhere else to go, but there isn't really one national organization. If we had one witness from the west and one from the east, I think they'd be able to outline the issues. That would give room for others on the panel to bring up their issues.

4:15 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Wayne, do you feel that on the east coast the fish processors are on the same page as the harvesters? On the west coast that would be an issue too.

Sorry, Peter. You put your hand up. You should go ahead.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

No. Elizabeth, go ahead and finish, and then we'll go to Peter.

4:15 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

You're right. There isn't one national voice for the fisheries. Whether it's a whole panel or not, it's more than two voices. That's my main point. In order to give them anything like a fair hearing, it will need more than one perspective from Atlantic Canada, and more than one perspective from the Pacific.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Yes. The only thing is that if we have a whole panel on fisheries, coming back to Pierre's point, we're really doing the fisheries committee's work, but I know from hearing from fishermen as I have that there is nowhere else for them to go at the moment.

Peter Julian.

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Yes, Wayne, that's the point. We're supposed to be sitting regarding COVID-19. I certainly agree with Mr. Poilievre's point about bringing in CMHC and the Auditor General, but the reality is that this finance committee has been convened to deal with COVID-19 issues during this pandemic.

The fisheries industry has been impacted. There are some national organizations such as the Independent Fish Harvesters' Federation that represent both the east and west coasts, but there are a lot of fisheries organizations that have been hard hit because of issues around processing, of course, and issues around export. It's important to set aside two hours to hear from a number of different organizations, to talk about the impact that COVID-19 has had on the fisheries industries and solutions to help address the concerns of the fisheries communities.

We also talked about arts, culture and sports. You had raised health care, and I think that makes sense, but we really should be having this discussion at the steering committee level.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I know we should. I guess we could probably do that, now that we have Zoom up and running. We could have a steering committee meeting next week for the week after, but I do think we have to decide now what we're doing next Thursday.

What day is the COVID-19 full panel meeting? We could probably find some time on Monday to look at the future from the steering committee. David, our clerk, could line up a time for us to meet as a steering committee on Monday, which would go to, say, the next couple of weeks, but I do think we need to make some decisions on next Thursday.

I might mention that the problem for the fishery, too, is that they are running out of time. With what's happening all across Quebec and on the east coast right now, do they fish or do they not? Do they trap lobster, or do they not? The market has shrunk. There is no policy in place at the moment to allow some people to stay off the water and others to fish, which would shrink the amount of product going into the marketplace. There's no sense fishing lobster if you're getting $2 a pound, so that's a whole other urgent issue and I see no place for them to go.

Next Thursday, then, would we be okay to go with fisheries on the first panel?

4:15 p.m.

An hon. member

Agreed.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay, and I see Gabriel shaking his head.

What do you want to do on the second panel?

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

I'd like arts and culture.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

James, what about you? I hear arts and culture.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

James Cumming Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Before we hit there, if we're going to get into a sectoral discussion, is the energy and resource committee going to be meeting?

4:15 p.m.

An hon. member

No, I don't think so.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Do you know what its acronym is?

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

James Cumming Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

I don't, but I would argue that if we're going to get into a sectoral discussion and we're talking about those sectors that have been impacted, the province that I come from has absolutely been impacted like no tomorrow. To think that we haven't had them in front of us to hear about what's going on in that sector, I would tell you, that has very great urgency.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

You won't get a disagreement from me. I hear about it from people in Alberta regularly, just because I know them, not because I chair the finance committee.