Finance Committee on April 30th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Do you have a quick supplementary question, James?

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Yes.

With CEBA, they're more of an agent of the government. As I understand it, the banks are being paid a fee. They really have no risk in that deal. That's how I understand it. Really, they don't, per se, have any skin in the game.

[Soren Halverson]

That's a fair comment. Yes, they serve an administrative function in that arrangement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

We'll turn to Mr. Sorbara and go to Mr. Cooper after that.

Francesco.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Obviously, our thoughts and prayers today go specifically to the armed forces personnel involved in an incident in the Adriatic Sea. Our thoughts are there, absolutely.

Our government has put in place a number of measures really aimed at helping Canadian workers and businesses battle this financial hardship that we've come to be in because of COVID-19. With that, we've premised it on getting support out to Canadian families and Canadian businesses as soon as possible. I think we've largely fulfilled that and are fulfilling that.

To the folks at CRA, Canadian families will be receiving an enhanced Canada child benefit in the month of May. When should they expect that, please?

[Frank Vermaeten]

I'd be happy to respond to that.

The Canada child benefit payment will be coming out on May 20. We try to orchestrate it so that everyone gets it at the same time. The cheques are sent a little bit earlier than the direct deposit so that they'll all arrive roughly on May 20, so that's pretty soon.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I believe the details are up to $300 per child on average, and a Canadian family will receive approximately $550. Can you confirm those numbers?

[Frank Vermaeten]

Those are correct. Virtually everybody will receive $300, and on the income scale those amounts are gradually reduced only at the higher end. Certainly those at the low, middle and higher middle income class will all be getting the $300, and then, as you said, on average the payments will be significantly higher.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

That's great news for Canadian families. I know that in my riding as well there are a lot of parents who are out of work, and we know that COVID-19 has impacted a lot of sectors and occupations in which a lot of women are employed. We know that the cost of raising a child is pretty high.

With regard to the CEWS, the wage subsidy, how many businesses have actually applied for that to date? Do we have those statistics?

[Frank Vermaeten]

We do. So far we have around 78,000 businesses that applied in the first few days. I think we'll see that gradually accelerate as businesses look at their own situation, and they do the calculations. Certainly, they have many technical questions, so we think this is a really good beginning and we'll be in place to send out those payments next week.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Okay.

Also, I have a clarification question for Service Canada and CRA. Thank you very much for putting up the numbers online in terms of how many applicants there have been for the CERB. We know how powerful the CERB has been in assisting Canadian families facing financial hardship. In terms of the numbers, when we look at unique applications versus the ongoing applications, we have the number 10 million and then the number seven million. My understanding is that in the first month of the qualifying period you had seven million applicants.

In the second month, did that number actually go down and that's where you get to the 10 million? I know the media was commenting on it and there was some clarification. Can you clarify that for everyone, please?

[Cliff C. Groen, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Canada - Benefit Delivery Services Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

To clarify, I would indicate that, as I think everyone knows, the benefit is being delivered by both Service Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency. The Service Canada delivery is through the employment insurance program. Applicants to the CERB on the Service Canada site need to apply only once, and then they do need to report their continuing eligibility, but they do not have to submit a second application.

However, on the CRA side, there is an initial application period of four weeks, and then subsequent applications are submitted for the subsequent periods. That's why we thought it was very important to be clear about the number of unique applicants, and that is also why there are more applications than there are in fact unique applicants.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Okay. Thank you very much for that.

With regard to the Canada emergency wage subsidy, are we still on track to ask...? This is a question for the CRA, which is running the program, and they are doing a fabulous job. I'll put that plug in for the parliamentary secretary and national revenue minister.

Are payments expected to businesses in Canada via direct deposit in the first week of May? I believe the date is between May 5 and May 7? Is that correct?

[Frank Vermaeten]

Yes, we're definitely on target for that. It will be important for businesses to sign up for direct deposit in order to get that money as quickly as possible if they're in need of that. We're really pleased to say that we work with financial institutions, and a lot of the major banks now will be offering an opportunity for the businesses to go to their banking portal and sign up for direct deposit through their banking portal. That will speed up the payment.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Of course.... Oh, I'm done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you. That's it. In fact, you're a little over. We were nice to you today, Francesco.

We'll go to Mr. Cooper, and then Ms. O'Connell will probably wrap it up, because we have to talk about the complications the whips created for us next week.

Mr. Cooper, you're on.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to all of the officials for being with us.

I want to discuss CEBA because, for many small businesses in my riding, the wage subsidy is not helpful to them because they're shut down. They've closed their doors and they've laid off their staff, sometimes weeks ago. CEBA would be helpful but they don't qualify because of issues around eligibility.

I don't want to put words in Mr. Fraser's mouth, but I got the sense or I thought I heard in part of his answer that the government wasn't considering expanding eligibility, but perhaps I'm wrong. I would just be curious to know whether or not the government is considering expanding the eligibility, if there is any movement on that front.

One example is in the case of contractors, whether payments to contractors could be treated as payroll. That's something Minister Ng has acknowledged a number of times, but there just hasn't been any movement on addressing that hole in the program.

I wonder if any of the officials could address that issue, and more broadly, issues around eligibility. Again, in my riding I can't count the number of business owners who are falling through the cracks.

[Soren Halverson]

Thank you for the question.

When it comes to the way the program is being executed, it's within a policy frame now. I'm not going to speculate on where that's going.

I will say, in respect of contractors, there are issues in terms of how those fees for services are reported and the consistency with which those fees are reported. It may be in some subset of cases that contractors have reported fees, but it certainly isn't always and everywhere the case that this will have happened. Like many aspects of this program, you would get into like-for-like issues as you look at those sorts of decision rules.

I'll just leave it there.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Okay, that's fair. I understand your position.

In terms of the rental assistance program, I know it was announced that it would be up and running in mid-May. Could you provide an update on where that stands?

On what date will landlords be in a position to apply, and on what day do you anticipate that monies will be deposited in landlords' accounts?

[Soren Halverson]

I believe you're working with the most specific guidance right there that is currently available on timing.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

That timing is mid-May when it would be rolled out for the purposes of applying.

My next question would be, how long would it take to process? Would you be able to comment on how that would look in terms of the administration of the program, because every day that goes by it becomes more and more difficult when we're talking about what is, for many businesses, their biggest fixed cost, with no revenue at the current time?

[Soren Halverson]

Thank you for those comments.

At present that's as far as we've gone in terms of specificity. It's something that people are working very hard on, and we'll come back with specific timing as soon as that's available.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

It could be, then, several weeks potentially—perhaps June 1 or later—that there would be any assistance directly provided.

[Soren Halverson]

People understand that it is very time-sensitive, and I just am not in a position to speculate on the specifics around timing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

There's time for one more question, Michael.