Finance Committee on May 1st, 2020

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm actually curious about one of the comments you made during your initial response, about most of the travel in 2020 being domestic travel. In some of the conversations I've had with tourism operators, they've asked for the federal government to put some sort of a push on to encourage domestic travel once the public health advice suggests it's safe to do so. Are there things that you think we can do to help airports facilitate domestic travel, so tourism operators may see a mitigation against some of the worst economic consequences of this outbreak?

[Joyce Carter]

For sure, when you think about travel, even between provinces right now, one of the main things that has to happen before that can happen is that the provinces have to open up their borders when it is safe to do so. When you look in the Atlantic region, you see those borders are all closed, even to interprovincial travel. That's the first thing that has to happen to allow people to travel safely, and to allow the carriers to be able to carry the passengers between those provinces.

The second thing we need to do, which we've started to do now, is to work really closely with the industry to ensure that we have all the procedures, processes and equipment in the airport to allow those travellers to feel safe. They're still not going to travel even domestically if they don't feel safe. I think about what happened after 9/11 when huge investments for security needed to be made.

Today, with the pandemic, that investment is going to be around technologies, the touchless processes that passengers can go through. Innovation is a big example, Sean, that will allow them to feel safe as they go through the airport. We need to preserve the cash we have today to allow us to make those investments, to then be ready to facilitate the growth in tourism that's going to happen when we start to come out the other side of this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both very much for that, Sean and Joyce.

We will go to one question in the following order: Ms. Larouche, Mr. Julian, Ms. May, Mr. Morantz, if he's still on, and Mr. Fragiskatos.

Ms. Larouche, the floor is yours.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Okay, thank you.

I have some more questions for the FADOQ representative.

I hear from a lot of people who are worried about protecting pension plans, especially given that many companies are likely to go bankrupt. Does the current situation make you worry about protecting workers' pensions? I know you submitted an excellent brief to the Standing Committee on the Status of Women about the challenges older women in Canada now face.

Could this threat to purchasing power and pensions have a disproportionate effect on older women?

[Gisèle Tassé-Goodman]

We talked about that in February when we appeared before the committee, and it's still relevant in the context of COVID-19. We expect to see bankruptcies in the coming months, and workers' pensions will probably be slashed as a result.

There are two measures the federal government could implement using two federal acts: the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act and the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act. These two laws could be amended to raise pensioners to the same level as priority creditors like the banks.

We asked the Quebec government to create an insurance plan for pension funds, and it did. For its part, the federal government could demonstrate benevolent leadership by amending the two acts I just mentioned. This would have an impact on women because any shortfall would affect those who are business owners or workers. People working for some companies, which I will not name, have lost a significant portion of their pension plan.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll have to end it there. Thank you, Andréanne.

We'll go to Mr. Julian, and then on to Ms. May.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Armstrong.

You've been very clear in the common-sense recommendations that come from the Canadian Dental Association. I don't think anyone would disagree with them, but I want to drill down a bit more on point three where you talk about government support for expanding health care benefits. Of course, in the United States, insurance companies eat up a lot of the health care dollars. In fact, it's twice as expensive in the U.S. and many people aren't covered. I know that the Canadian Dental Association has taken a position on national dental care, but doesn't it make more sense, rather than putting public funds into insurance companies to enhance their profits, to make sure that we're expanding public coverage of dental care and making sure in that way that it adds to your other three points about ensuring the country's dentists come through this pandemic and the economic crisis that's part of it?

[Dr. Jim Armstrong]

Thank you for the question. I think, actually, we are going to be part of a panel on health coming up whenever we get past this economic crisis and the COVID-19 health care crisis.

Given what we've all gone through, and this collapse in demand, we're all looking at a totally new environment where we're going to have to innovate and pivot. I know we'd be happy to be part of any conversation and we would be happy to look at any alternatives. I will say that, right now, the product that's out there is the extended health benefits, and Canadians are really stressed. The mental health issues right now for Canadians are huge, and that's part of that. My back's killing me from my home office. My patients are chipping teeth left, right and centre. That's at least a quick vehicle. There may be better vehicles long term.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both for that.

Elizabeth May, you have a question.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Yes, it's really hard to know with so many compelling witnesses...and thank you all for being here.

One theme that seems to come through is post-pandemic and what we've learned about our globalized supply chains. We might want to be looking at more energy security, more food security and more of it being done locally.

I wanted to return to Mark Scholz. I agree that we should be more energy secure as a country and I'm very supportive of your comments about turning to geothermal as having potential. I wonder if you have any reflections on the funding that the federal government is providing for cleaning up orphaned wells. I understand about 10% of those orphaned wells might have geothermal potential, and I wonder if you have any thoughts on that.

[Mark Scholz]

Sorry, Ms. May, could you just repeat the question again?

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Yes, the question is related to the cleanup of orphaned wells where I understand about 10% of those wells might have enough heat at depth for turbines for actual geothermal electricity.

[Mark Scholz]

I wouldn't be the subject matter expert on that piece of the business, but certainly what I would say is that there is huge potential to go back to existing wells and assess the viability for geothermal. At the end of the day, a geothermal well is drilled in the exact same way as an oil or natural gas well, so maybe I'll just leave it at that. As I said, I don't know the percentages or what that would look like. I just know that it is possible.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

I didn't want Peter Julian to get the only drilled-down question, so we're going from dentists to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Elizabeth, and welcome to the committee.

We'll go to Marty Morantz and then we'll wrap it up with Peter Fragiskatos.

Marty.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To the chartered professional accountants, I've been hearing from some of the firms in my riding—and I've made a point of this in the past—that there are many gaps in these emergency programs. One of them that I found interesting was among the professional accountants. Many of them can't show a required revenue loss year over year because in February, March and April they're busy processing their clients' tax returns and they leave their billings until after tax season. Apparently this is a widespread problem and CPA firms are struggling because they can't maintain their staff because they don't have the revenue.

I'm just wondering if you've been hearing reports of this, and if you have any comments on it.

[Bruce Ball]

I could take a run at it. I don't know if Joy wanted to or not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Whoever wants to answer.... The two of you can answer, for that matter.

[Joy Thomas]

Go ahead, Bruce.

[Bruce Ball]

All right. I'll go first.

From what I'm hearing it really depends on what the firm does, too. A fair bit of work for our profession has slowed down, so insurance work has slowed down a bit because a lot of that does require more than working at home. I think for tax people, they've been kept pretty busy dealing with the compliance, so I think it really depends on the nature of the firm.

The other thing I've heard is that it has hit smaller firms probably worse than larger firms. I think the larger firms were set up better for working from home and that kind of thing. Like many smaller businesses, I think they were hurt as well. Some practices focused on elder care as well, and I think that's been an issue. It's very difficult to work with those clients right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Joy, do you want to add to that?

[Joy Thomas]

No, I think Bruce has really covered it.

I was going to say that what we are hearing does seem to come more from small and medium-sized practitioners. Their revenue is more specific to certain parts of the year, whereas the larger firms across the country offer a number of advisory services, audit services and tax services, so it's more spread out.

There definitely are some issues with variations in revenue, whether it's in the accounting profession or across the country. I think that's one area we have identified in some of the issues we are discussing with the government now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Thank you both.

We will now turn to Peter Fragiskatos to wrap it up.

The floor is yours, Peter.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Carter.

Ms. Carter, you've done an excellent job encapsulating for us during this testimony the economic footprint that airports contribute to communities. In London, Ontario, we're fortunate enough to have the London International Airport. It's done a tremendous job in terms of its growth in recent years. The number of commuters they were seeing pass through the airport was 500,000 just a couple of years ago. I think that number is around 650,000 to 700,000 now. It's really important to our city, and I know that's true of cities in regions across the country.

Taken to its very core, what is your key recommendation to the federal government? You've said a number of things here today very eloquently, but what would you say is at the top of the list as far as your concerns go and how the government can assist at this time?