Finance Committee on May 5th, 2020

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thanks to all the presenters for their outstanding presentations.

I have three questions, so I would be grateful if everybody could keep their answers short. In this regard, it's interesting that the questions have shifted from urgent, immediate action to moving past the current pandemic phase and the COVID-19 reset period.

My first question is for Mr. Brunnen of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.

It's hard to see the world outside of the pandemic because we're so consumed with it, but most of the world is continuing to embark on a clean energy transition. That means moving to a low-carbon future and moving to decarbonization.

How can we help the oil and gas industry move to where the puck is going? You mentioned a series of investments that could be made. Is there anything specific that the federal government could be investing in that would help the oil industry move toward a low-carbon future, decarbonization and clean energy?

[Ben Brunnen]

With decarbonization, we are talking about a movement to low carbon. Our industry has invested pretty substantially there, from a technology perspective, to reduce our carbon footprint. There is technology in SAGD right now that could decrease the carbon footprint of our oil sands by 50% to 80%, depending on the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I believe somebody doesn't have their mike muted. There are other sounds coming through. Everybody, check to make sure that your mike is muted.

Okay, Ben, try again.

[Ben Brunnen]

The technology exists. It needs to be commercialized and it needs some support in technology development. It starts with support for our industry and recognition that we are part of the solution, and encouraging the investment not only in our projects but also in the technologies that reduce our emissions.

We can [Inaudible—Editor] this now. Our primary recommendation to the government is to move into a collaborative space with industry across multiple ministries to advance that vision and develop our projects that way.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you. That's helpful.

My next question is for Ms. Van Buren of the Canadian Construction Association. It's a quick question.

I'm very blessed to have a lot of construction workers in my downtown Toronto riding of Davenport. Before this pandemic, there was a huge crisis with the labour needs of the construction industry. Is that still the case, or has this pandemic largely eliminated that? If you could address that, I'd be grateful.

[Mary Van Buren]

Getting a skilled, well-trained and diverse workforce was virtually the number one issue across Canada. We believe that will continue to be an area of focus for us as we move into recovery. We know that, certainly, this can cause concern for seasonal employees, who may start looking for other industries to work in.

We believe that the challenge will be as great or greater coming out of this recovery, and that's certainly why CCA is campaigning to position the industry as inclusive. We want to attract a very diverse group of people, from the skilled trades as well as those from science, technology, engineering and math, or STEM. We need drone pilots, artificial intelligence, virtual reality and big data people. It will be a really exciting time for people to join the industry, but to do that, we have to position it as a career choice.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you. That's very helpful.

Mr. Wilson of the Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters, both Mr. Neumann and Ms. Van Buren and a lot of people in my riding have mentioned that there continues to be a concern around PPE, both right now and ongoing as we get out of this current pandemic phase.

I know that our federal government has been heroic in ordering as much as we can right now while bringing up the manufacturing base to produce as much as we possibly can now and in the future. Is there anything more we could be doing?

[Mathew Wilson]

Manufacturers have stepped up with not only N95 masks but also with a range of PPE they have been manufacturing, and have been for a bit already. The problem has been more about what products are needed, who would buy them, how you would get them tested and then who would supply those subcomponents. It's easy to identify one component of a product, but it's a lot harder to identify a lot of the subcomponents. A lot of those supply chains have been stood up relatively quickly, which the manufacturing sector deserves a lot for because of its ability to do that type of work. We're starting to see that output come on stream now.

What more could be done? I was talking to the health committee earlier today, and one of the things we talked about there was more centralized and coordinated procurement. Right now, the procurement side of things is a real mess. That's not a federal government responsibility, but it doesn't even seem to be a provincial government responsibility in some cases. It seems to be the level of local health units, and it's really tough for manufacturers to produce to scale and try to sell to multiple health units across the country, never mind a region or a province. So that would be one thing that would help an awful lot.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Thank you all. We're a little over on that round.

As a note to members, Mr. Fash from BILD Alberta Association hasn't had any questions yet, and I can see he's on pins and needles waiting for one.

Next up is Mr. Morantz, and then on to Ms. Koutrakis.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

Sorry, Mr. Chair and Mr. Fash, my questions are for my friend, Mr. Remillard, from the Winnipeg Chamber.

It's always nice to have a fellow Winnipegger on the line, Loren. I just want to touch on ICIP for a couple of minutes. It's no secret that this program has had problems. Parliament voted to have the Auditor General audit ICIP, and that wasn't just the Conservative Party, but with the support of the Bloc and the NDP.

The construction industry also applies to public construction. The future of public municipal projects, I think, is also going to be key, in addition to the oil and gas industry and other industries, in coming out of this. I think you're in a unique place to discuss this, because of your position at the chamber and your former history as a public servant. What advice or commentary might you have for government to ensure that their infrastructure dollars get out the door on a timely basis to help Canada come out of the current crisis?

[Loren Remillard]

Thank you, Mr. Morantz. It's great to be here again. It's great as well to see a fellow Winnipegger.

I will say this. The Winnipeg chamber, along with eight of the largest metropolitan chambers in this country, formed the Canadian Global Cities Council in 2016. In 2018 we produced a report that received national coverage and called for a national urban strategy. Canada has the distinction of being one of two OECD nations, the other being the United States, that does not have a national urban strategy.

Effectively, what that's calling for is moving away from project-based funding, whereby communities like Winnipeg, Toronto and Montreal—you name them—would work with their provincial counterparts and develop local regional plans for those communities, which the federal government would fund. If the priorities shift in concert with the municipality and the province and you've had something change, you don't need to keep going back to Ottawa, because Ottawa is funding the plan and the priorities as set by the local communities themselves.

That's one way, I think, that the government can transform how it funds infrastructure in this country. It's to ask the communities what their priorities are and to say, “Put it in a plan and we'll fund the plan.”

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

I guess it's also to say no to the public servants once in a while.

[Loren Remillard]

Well, challenge the public servants.... Challenge them to do what they do best. I work with many incredible individuals.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Yes.

To circle around to the wage subsidy, I'm certain that some of your members have been struggling with this. As far as I'm aware, not a single wage subsidy dollar has left Ottawa yet. I know that the program had a lot of trouble getting off the ground. Originally, it was 10%, and thanks to organizations like yours, I think, and other people, there was a call for it to be 75%. I know that the Liberals brought out legislation that was insufficient, which delayed the program again.

Here we are in early May, and businesses have had to make some very difficult decisions. I'm wondering if you could describe some of the difficulties you've seen among your members.

[Loren Remillard]

Thank you for the question. I'll say—and I'm sure members of the committee can share this as well, those who have very vibrant and strong arts and cultural sectors in their communities—that Winnipeg is one of those fortunate communities where we punch above our weight when it comes to our contributions to arts and culture, and I can tell you that the impact on our sector in Winnipeg has been tremendously difficult.

The Winnipeg Symphony Orchestra had to lay off its entire staff. The Winnipeg Folk Festival, the largest and most celebrated folk festival in North America, cancelled its performance. Now, those things were going to happen, the cancellation of the events, but we know that within the arts and culture sector, for some of the larger ones down to the smaller community groups, the wage subsidy delays and so forth were problematic. We've seen significant layoffs there.

Again, for Winnipeg, this sector contributes disproportionately, in a positive way, to our GDP. As a result, we're suffering disproportionately from these injuries.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

I have one last quick one, Mr. Chair, on a more positive note.

I think that both Mr. Remillard and I can attest to the heart and the resilience of Winnipeggers and Winnipeg business people. On a nice note, I know that there are a number of companies in Manitoba that have really picked up the cause. You mentioned the concept in your opening statement.

I wonder if you talk about, for example, the breweries that have converted to making hand sanitizer, which I think is so innovative, and other things that may have crossed your path over the last number of weeks.

[Loren Remillard]

Thank you.

The one that comes to mind is the Farmery Estate Brewery. They were, of course, on Dragons' Den. You can actually get hand sanitizer in beer cans now. It's quite innovative and doing exceptionally well. The Capital K Distillery produces a high-end vodka—I encourage you to partake of their product—but have converted as well.

The Duha Group is a provider of ink toners and supplies for printing. They have converted completely to the production of hand sanitizer, all the proceeds of which are being donated to the Grace Hospital Foundation. It's another example of companies doing the right thing for the right reasons at the right time.

Also, of course, the celebrated Canada Goose, which makes parkas—a bit of a requirement in our nation—is now making gowns and other PPE. As well, Mondetta is doing the same.

I think Winnipeg is indicative of everyone's community from coast to coast to coast. Business has risen to the challenge and has asked how it can help and what it needs do and has said that it's going to turn....

Also, let's celebrate their employees as well, who have risen to the occasion and embraced that opportunity. To me, crisis brings out the best and the worst in people. I think we need to take a moment to stop and celebrate those companies and those employees that have really shone and have shown what Canada is about.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you for those questions and responses.

We'll turn to Ms. Koutrakis. Then we'll go to five single questions, if we could, from Mr. Ste-Marie, Mr. Julian, Ms. May, Mr. Fragiskatos and Mr. Cumming.

Annie, you're on.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I hope to be able to ask questions of three different witnesses, beginning with Mr. Wilson of Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters.

Mr. Wilson, what effect has COVID-19 had on the cross-border supply chains needed to manufacture certain products? Are certain industries feeling the effects of this crisis more than others? Is there anything the federal government can do to support and protect these supply chains?

[Mathew Wilson]

Really quickly, in the sectors that continue to operate, they've been working fine. I think the CBSA and the federal government have done a really good job. Obviously, there are big sectors, though, that aren't operating. Aerospace and automotive are two that are essentially shut down across North America. That accounts for probably 40% of the volume across the Canada-U.S. border in goods.

In terms of the other sectors that do rely on the border, such as agri-food, which is the next-biggest sector, they are still operating. Everything's fine at the borders. There have been rules put in place to help the trucking community and support the integrated manufacturing sector.

Generally speaking, it's working well, and the government's been very responsive.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you very much for your answer. That gives me some comfort, as I'm sure it does for many others as well.

My next question is for Mrs. Van Buren of the Canadian Construction Association.

Beyond the direct financial support from the federal government, what can be done to encourage outside investment in post-COVID infrastructure projects from sources such as the Canada Infrastructure Bank and large pension funds?

[Mary Van Buren]

The ask that we have is actually to reimburse the costs for federal projects as opposed to financial relief. It's to share in those costs that they had to do in order to continue with the federal projects.

In terms of longer-term infrastructure investment, we go back to investor confidence. Take a project like Trans Mountain, which had followed dutifully, we believe, all of the processes and then hit some snags. Often that is a signal to the marketplace that Canada may not be as great a place to do business as other sectors. We know, certainly, that the U.S.A. has had a much better tax regime as well. So making Canada confident for investors is a number one priority.

There's also looking at how we can better leverage the investment available from the Canada Infrastructure Bank, the $35 billion, to help de-risk some of the projects that are out there. One area we'd love to see is helping us with innovation. Construction has been seen as an industry that is not as productive as others. If one of the mandates for the Canada Infrastructure Bank could be to help de-risk the cost of innovation, that would really help us as we come into recovery and better position the industry for the future.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, do I have time for one more?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You have two minutes.