Finance Committee on May 7th, 2020

[Randy Ambrosie]

—that will be good for Canadians in the long run.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

So what you're really looking for is gifts in kind, where you would be the league's spokesman for several government agencies coming forth. I get that. It would be more or less the gifts in kind that would go along with this agreement if you do get it from the federal government.

I was surprised because there was no proposal. When you brought this forward last month to the federal government, you didn't bring the players' association on board. It was almost a proposal by Randy Ambrosie himself. Many of the teams in the CFL are doing very well, the community-owned teams in particular. The Saskatchewan Roughriders made a profit of $1.5 million in their latest disclosure from 2018, Winnipeg $2.6 million, and Edmonton $2.8 million. The rest are privately owned, as you know, with big deep pockets, such as Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, a $4-billion organization; and Calgary Sports and Entertainment. You have Roger Greenberg, who is connected with the Ottawa franchise. You have Bob Young, David Braley.

Really, Commissioner, there was a lot of public skepticism when you came forward last month wanting a partial bailout, we're going to call it, of $30 million, when many of your league's teams right now are taking the Canada emergency wage subsidy. That will total about $5 million, and it runs out next month. The public and the media itself—and I've seen a lot of comments in the last month—are skeptical because when you look at the deep pockets.... I've covered the CFL for over four decades. I think it's the most stable it has ever been, yet you come out with a $30-million ask, and another $120 million if the season doesn't go ahead, at a time when the unemployment rate in Calgary is 8.6% and we have businesses all across this country that are suffering.

Yesterday I did a newsletter...and you should take this really seriously. The province of Saskatchewan bleeds green. We all know that. I did a poll and overwhelmingly people did not want any support being provided to the CFL. That's coming from the best franchise you have today.

Therefore, how do you go about this today, in front of the committee, with your hands out for $30 million, and maybe another $120 million? I get it. I know that your league is driven by fans. The TSN deal certainly helps, but as you said, the advertisers and the TV deal is just money that you're going to have to pay back if the games aren't held.

You've got about a minute left, if you don't mind, Commissioner, to talk about how you can come to the committee today asking for the $30 million, and then later maybe another $120 million.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll give you whatever time you need, Commissioner.

[Randy Ambrosie]

Thank you.

I'd start by thanking you for your question and pointing out the fact that those numbers you quoted relating to our three community teams refer only to part of the CFL story. Of course, while those numbers were positive in 2018, as you referenced, are going to be dramatically different in 2020 as we face the very real scenario of, at best, a truncated season, and then possibly a completely lost season.

In the face of essentially a zero-revenue model, all of our teams, including our community teams, are going to suffer significant losses that will be hard to recover from. We have great strength in those community teams, but again, it's only part of the story because we've got private owners and corporate owners who have invested not for the sake of a great return, but they've really invested in Canada and Canadian culture and Canadian sport. I call them sports philanthropists, but there is a limit to the amount of support they and their families are prepared to give. The real issue is that this crisis is essentially going to quadruple, or more than that, the financial losses our teams will take in a season that could potentially be lost altogether.

Again, I want to be clear on behalf of my league and our owners, our board of governors, that we are not looking for a handout. We're not. We're really looking for a partnership with government. We're looking for a solution. We believe that we can sit at the table and talk about a way to work together that will get us through the crisis so we can resume our activities, working with our players as partners. We've resumed our discussions with the players. We know we have work to do there, but ultimately I think everyone associated with our league can agree on one thing: everyone wants this league to survive.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. We'll have to end it there.

We are turning to Ms. Dzerowicz and then Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Julie.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair

I want to thank all the presenters for their excellent presentations. They were varied and, as the chair said at the outset, you really learn a lot through these sessions in terms of the diversity and the importance to Canada of so many of the industries.

I'm going to focus most of my questions on the arts and culture sector. I want to first acknowledge the role of our artists/creators and those working in the cultural sector in terms of helping Canadians through the pandemic.

I think many of us are very aware of some of the public things that have been done, such as the artists who performed in Nova Scotia Remembers in commemorating the mass killing in Nova Scotia, and the 86 artists who participated in Canada's Stronger Together, which not only raised money for food banks across Canada, but also put a lot of dance, song and hope into our lives.

I also want to say that even locally I have little bands performing on balconies. I have people sending out songs, stories and poems. I think all of this helps us digest our grief, helps us get us through our days and helps us with a bit of joy and hope moving forward. I want to acknowledge that.

My first question is for Mr. Keast, who is part of One Voice for Arts and Culture.

I know that you represent 100 organizations. It's actually an unbelievable list of organizations across this country, Mr. Keast. Thank you for bringing together a lot of the voices.

You've talked about the $500-million emergency support fund that our government introduced about three weeks ago. I just want to acknowledge the extraordinary leadership of Minister Guilbeault and our parliamentary secretary, Julie Dabrusin. They worked really hard. It has taken a little while, and I know it's because we have such an extraordinarily diverse arts and culture sector that they're taking a bit of time, but I'm hoping to hear some good news soon.

When I look at your 100 organizations, a lot of the organizations tend to be some of the smaller and medium-sized museums and galleries. If there's something very specific within the emergency support fund that you would like to see, could you articulate what that might be?

[Brad Keast]

Absolutely, and I as well would definitely like to acknowledge all of the work that went into putting together the $500 million. I recognize that a lot of the efforts are to first let everyone know there is work under way through the announcement and, of course, for something like this, something that large in a sector as diverse as ours, that will take a lot of time.

In the small and medium-sized institutions, again, there is a lot of variation from group to group. A lot of them really have focused on their staff in trying to adapt to what is changing right now in terms of the unknown between when we can come back, what they're going to do with their programming, how they're going to adjust and what new requirements would be on them from a public safety standpoint for people who come back into their spaces.

In general, I think what they really seem to need is.... Again, that first bit is that stability, to just make sure that they can get to the other side. A lot of fixed costs are absolutely key. If there is a rent payment, it's about making sure that is available; I know there is the new emergency program for rent relief. That does work. Some organizations do qualify, but some do not. It depends on how much your revenues have dropped—

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Keast, unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time. I'm going to ask a question that's a bit more specific.

A lot of organizations have started moving a bit more online. Do you think some support around a digital strategy would be helpful?

[Brad Keast]

The online piece is really interesting. There's definitely a lot of moving towards that. I think we're in 1.0 or 1.5, call it, of this iteration. Right now, I haven't seen anything where there is an opportunity to bring in any revenue from the online piece. At this point, for a public museum to have a paywall is very challenging. I think that would be off-putting, especially in this time. Definitely, there is a way to engage and, interestingly, as we've talked about with our—

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Sorry about that, but unfortunately I have two more questions.

[Brad Keast]

Okay.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I'll shift over to Corus Entertainment.

Mr. Reeb, you mentioned that you have to provide 30% of your revenues to Canadian content. I like that, because I like that the dollars are going to Canadian artists, producers and writers. If anything, I'd like to see a level playing field with some of the online foreign streaming giants. I want to hear your recommendations or thoughts on taxing these streaming giants.

[Troy Reeb]

Thank you for acknowledging Nova Scotia Remembers and Stronger Together, which we were certainly proud to be a part of bringing to Canadian audiences.

You raised an excellent point about the disparity between the Canadian broadcasters, which face a myriad of regulations around the content they produce and air in their contributions to the Canadian sector, and those they compete against from outside our borders, whether it is Netflix, Disney+ or others. They don't pay taxes in Canada, don't employ Canadians, by and large, and they are free to drop programming into the Canadian marketplace and take dollars out of it without the same kinds of restrictions.

We think there needs to be a level playing field when it comes to taxation. We also think there needs to be a level playing field when it comes to the kinds of regulations that are placed upon the foreign streamers so that they need to compete under the same kinds of rules that we do. We're proud to contribute to the Canadian entertainment and information ecosystem, but we're doing it with one hand tied behind our back in that there are big foreign companies that are incredibly well capitalized that don't face the same kind of regulatory burdens that we do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Sorry, Julie, but we'll have to end it there. We're a little over time.

We'll go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and then to Mr. Julian.

Alexis.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Good morning, everyone.

I want to thank all the witnesses for coming to make a presentation. I also want to thank the House technicians, who made it possible for Mr. Roy to speak in French before us.

I don't see Mr. Roy anymore. Can he confirm that he's in fact here?

[Martin Roy]

Yes, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. Hello.

I'm still having trouble with interpretation. You're going to hear me, but I don't think there's going to be any interpretation.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I understand. Could we continue anyway?

[Martin Roy]

Just give me two minutes, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Are you okay?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes. We're able to hear the interpreter, so we're fine now, I think.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I also hear the interpretation, fantastic.

Thank you, everyone. Congratulations to the technicians. Once again, you're great.

I have worked in the cultural field for 19 years and I know the importance of this industry for our culture, of course, but also for our economy. It's very important to point that out. Often, we are seen as people who live on subsidies alone, whereas culture brings in a lot of money for many stakeholders and entrepreneurs.

My first question will be quite simple, Mr. Roy. I wonder if the emergency wage subsidy is adequately meeting the needs of your industry. Are there any blind spots that this subsidy does not cover?

[Martin Roy]

Thank you for your question. I hope you will all hear and understand my answer.

The problem with this wage subsidy as it is designed is that it is targeted at specific time periods. For non-profit organizations, as is the case for most festival and event organizers, having 15% or 30% less revenue when their revenues are already at zero, let's put it this way, makes little difference.

First we need to see if the wage subsidy will be extended. That's what we're hoping for. Culture is about more than festivals and events. I can't imagine the situation recovering before June 6, when the wage subsidy ends. I see a big problem with that.

Then, beyond that, ways will have to be found, perhaps with the Department of Canadian Heritage, to ensure some flexibility in the payment of the wage subsidy. If not by making changes to the program itself, Canadian Heritage or other departments could provide flexibility for different presenters in the cultural community, particularly those who put on festivals and events. This may be desirable.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much. I have another question for you.

You just talked about the Department of Canadian Heritage. In your opinion, what role should Economic Development Canada or the Canadian Tourism Commission play with regard to festivals and events in the context of a possible recovery plan?

[Martin Roy]

For the time being, the role played by Economic Development Canada and Minister Joly mainly involves the regional economic development agencies. This includes Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions. That said, this relationship could be further developed.

Last year, the agencies began to manage the Canadian experiences fund, which is aimed at tourism, primarily cultural tourism, indigenous tourism, winter tourism and other sectors, but not festival-related event tourism. We would very much like event tourism to be recognized, in general, as a pillar of tourism. The problem is that, at the moment, festivals and events are often considered to be part of the cultural sector. However, we forget that they are important economic and tourism engines. That is what needs to be recognized.

Earlier in my speech, I mentioned the Marquee Tourism Events Program, which was introduced in 2009-10. We hope that a version 2.0 of this program will be implemented to revive not only the events and festival sector, but also everything that revolves around it. Obviously, this would target artists, but also restaurants and hotels, which will be in great need of such an intervention after the crisis.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

In your opinion, will it be possible to return to normality fairly quickly, or will this be done in the medium or long term? What path should we take to return to that normality?

[Martin Roy]

In my opinion, the period we are now entering will be transitional. Normalcy will not return until there is a vaccine, treatment or herd immunity. Within 12 or 18 months, we will have to find a way to get together, attend shows and festivals while adhering to public health guidelines. We, as festival organizers, are going to see if it is possible to hold events in the context that we know, especially at outdoor venues which, obviously, are larger and allow for some physical distance.

In addition, the creators we know, in Quebec and in Canada, may be able to add original events, completely unusual and innovative performances. In such cases, physical or social distancing will not be necessary. We therefore hope to be able to reinvent the festival and events sector, as it were, by the time this crisis ends and the public wants to attend festivals and events again.