Finance Committee on May 21st, 2020

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

We appreciate that. It's been five weeks. Time is running out for these people. We need the government to react quickly. It keeps designing programs that are basically complicated programs that cut people out instead of helping the people who need help the most.

We've heard from people in small business. They did a survey. Sixty-seven per cent of them said that the rent subsidy is most important to them. Fifty-four per cent said rent relief would save their business. This is pretty scary, since only a third of them actually believe their landlord is going to apply, so we need this fixed.

We are hearing that the LEEFF requirements are actually going to be.... There are many obstacles to small business owners applying for this program that you're rolling out, but fewer obstacles when it comes to the big corporations, so we're deeply concerned that the government is creating these obstacles for small businesses.

Can you explain why the threshold is a 70% drop in business for the commercial rent assistance program, instead of 30% as in the Canada wage subsidy? We know anyone who has lost over 30% in revenue is going to have an almost impossible chance of surviving this crisis.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Johns. I want to start first by thanking the many hard-working civil servants who have steadfastly through this enormously challenging period stepped up to do the incredible work that they have in supporting the government and indeed Canadians to make sure that programs have been designed, have been iterated and have been improved upon so that we can get that help out to Canadians. There is nothing more important to me than helping Canadian small businesses.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I appreciate the civil service too, Minister, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

The minister has about 40 seconds yet.

Go ahead, Minister.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Nothing is more important to me than making sure that this support is there for small businesses. You heard me say that they are literally the dynamic backbone of our communities, and we're going to keep doing this work as we need to. There are a range of programs right now that we're going to continue to help them save their employees, help them with some cash flow and make sure that they get the 75% rent support.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You have time for one more question, Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Minister, I don't think it's up to the public service to be determining the 70% drop in revenue or the 30%. That's a political decision. We're looking to you to fix that so that people don't fall through the cracks.

The other part is the business account requirement. I have a diner in my riding, Topspot Diner. They have $140,000 in payroll, yet the government won't recognize them for many of the programs that it's rolling out, including the CEBA. This is happening in urban centres throughout the country as well, where business owners can't access any support.

Will you fix this simple requirement? I think it's very important. You've said that you're willing to look at this. You've done some work on CEBA and you've been listening to some of the changes, but this is a simple change. Will you fix it?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

The answer is that we will continue to work with our small businesses to make sure that they are supported through this. The personal account change is something that we are already committed to do, and we are just working through the final pieces to make sure that's available to those hard-working entrepreneurs and business owners.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both.

We're going on to a five-minute round, with Mr. Cumming and then Ms. Koutrakis.

Go ahead, Mr. Cumming.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you.

Madam Minister, I have some other questions for you.

On the personal account, when will that measure be put in place?

We need more than a promise: We need a date. Businesses need certainty. What's the date?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

It will be as quickly and as fast as we can go.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Related to CEWS, I'll think of this business that I'm sitting in today. The owner has contract employees who come in. Why would you not consider contract employees in the wage subsidy?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

The wage subsidy is an important benefit to help employers keep their employees. I would say that over two million Canadians already are being helped.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Will you consider contract employees within the CEWS program?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

We're going to keep listening to businesses. I really appreciate the input that we are getting from businesses so that we can keep doing the work we need to do to help them.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Here's a business to listen to.

Laura has had two storefront businesses, and she was on the verge of closure. Now she's pulled up her bootstraps and she has been working hard to make sure that these businesses survive. She's finally at the point where she's reopening in a modified version.

Because she couldn't afford to keep her employees, they went onto CERB. Now she wants them to come back, and she finds out that to get her employees to come back, she can't give them enough hours, so she's not eligible for the wage subsidy.

What advice would you give her?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

On that specific one, perhaps my office can get back to her.

I didn't quite get the full question. My headphones cut out for a second. Can you just repeat that for me?

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

She had to...because she had no revenue.

The wage subsidy didn't work. She didn't have the ability to pay 25% of the wages. Now she has started to reopen. She can bring people back in, but she can only bring them in on a part-time basis. She will not be eligible.

Her employees do not want to come back, because they're on CERB and they would gain too much income and would not be eligible for the wage subsidy.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Okay. I understand that.

The wage subsidy does apply to workers who are being paid part time. There is eligibility there.

I just want to remind people that CERB was put out in an effort to help Canadians flatten the curve by staying at home. It's a temporary benefit to help all Canadians to do what we needed to do to flatten this curve.

As you know, the wage subsidy is being extended, and we are going to continue to listen to businesses. We said we were going to do that.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

That's understood, but this specific example gives you an indication of why it has created some difficulty.

I want to move on.

In many cases, you've referred people to other programs that are available. There's the BCAP and specifically the EDC loan guarantees to 80%.

Can you tell me how many loan guarantees have been issued through EDC for this program so that we can see its effectiveness since it started in the middle of March or towards the end of March?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

I don't have that number in front of me right now. I'm happy to get that back to you.

That program is incredibly important. It is available through the financial institutions for the larger small businesses or the medium-sized businesses that need loans of up to $12 million, which is what that number is. However, that's actually a combination between EDC and BDC.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Can you get back to us on that? If it's such a critical program, we should be able to see how effective it has been and how many people are dealing with it.

All these businesses are trying to start up now. Can you tell me how much planning has been done to help them when they open, particularly in relation to PPE and having supplies available to the private sector at a reasonable cost so they can open their businesses again?

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

That's a very good question. You heard me talk earlier about how important it is to help and support businesses throughout this crisis, and during the restart it's no different. We have been working with the provinces to ensure that there is the appropriate guidance led through PHAC to make sure that this information gets out to businesses.

Canadian occupational health and safety—

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Can I make it more specific?

How many masks will be available to the private sector so they can open their businesses? That seems to be the main thing that many of these businesses will need.

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

My colleague, the procurement minister, has a supply council that the chambers and businesses sit on. They're working to ensure that the needs identified by business and other sectors are taken into account so that the Government of Canada continues to procure. You heard me talk about the made-in-Canada program and about how the private sector is standing up to create additional capability and supplies in the country. This entire effort is to ensure that there is the adequacy out there for our businesses.