Finance Committee on May 26th, 2020

[Dave Wardrop]

Normal weekday ridership would be somewhere between 150,000 to 200,000. It would be approximately 150,000 rides per normal weekday ridership. Of course, what we're seeing now is, to repeat what we've often heard, unprecedented in all municipal services, particularly in transit. Transit is a big piece of the impact to municipal services, and we've gone from full and overfull buses to buses with two or three passengers.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Roughly what do you think it would be during a weekday now?

[Dave Wardrop]

It would probably be in the order of perhaps 10,000 rides.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

That's a dramatic reduction.

[Dave Wardrop]

Perhaps there would be 20,000 or something in that order.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

In the context of crisis, I know that Winnipeg Transit had lots of different plans in place. There was the rapid transit master plan. I know the city council had requisitioned a report on electrification. As well, there's the bus acquisition program.

Could you talk in broad terms about the effect this crisis will have on the ability of Winnipeg Transit to plan for the future?

[Dave Wardrop]

Clearly, there have been implications in terms of the self-funding. Winnipeg Transit is largely funded by fare-box revenue. Approximately 60% of regular transit operations are funded from fare-box revenue. That revenue has been impacted substantially, and many of our programs are funded on a cash-to-capital basis, meaning a pay-as-you-go cash flow, so there is the potential for long-term implications both in terms of operations and capital programming.

We're making best efforts to continue capital programming across many of our organizational initiatives and trying to maintain as much stimulus in the local economy as we can through capital programming, but there are limits to the point and extent that we can continue.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

In terms of going forward, looking post-crisis, what measures will Winnipeg Transit be taking to try to make people feel more comfortable getting back on the bus? I know you talked about sanitizing. What other types of health measures will you be implementing, or what have you done so far?

[Dave Wardrop]

Like other transit agencies across the country, we've undertaken measures in communication via social media and onboard signage to communicate proper protocols in terms of spacing, in terms of not boarding if sick, and otherwise. We've undertaken substantive initiatives in terms of cleaning the interiors of buses and the application of medical-grade disinfections through electrostatic application.

We're balancing the need between providing an appropriate level of service with a safe level of service as well. We want to make sure that there's adequate capacity within the system to carry people without overcrowding. Although we have reduced our regular service to what we call an “enhanced Saturday service”, whereby we operate Saturday buses with express routes, with local feeder routes and with industrial service, we also have a number of buses that we mobilize on an as-required basis to keep ridership served.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

On another point—our next panel, ironically, is on supply chains—I wonder if you could discuss bus acquisitions and if you think this will have an effect on the planned number of buses you're acquiring or have an impact on transit's ability to maintain its standard supply of buses. New Flyer is one of the largest bus manufacturers in the world, basically, and it's right in Winnipeg. I'm curious to know what the supply chain impacts might be around that.

[Dave Wardrop]

Much of the capital budgeting for bus acquisitions had been approved and identified in advance of 2020, so in this immediate year there's probably not an immediate implication. That said, given some of the long-term implications of the funding and the availability of working cash flow, there is a risk of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll have to end it there, Marty. We're slightly over.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. Koutrakis is next, followed by Mr. Baldinelli.

Annie.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to address my first question to Mr. Lefebvre.

Mr. Lefebvre, what steps are being taken to ensure the health and safety of employees and students who will use your services once schools reopen?

More specifically, how will your school bus services work once students are back at school?

[Stéphane Lefebvre]

Thank you for the question.

In Quebec, elementary students are already back at school, so we are providing school bus service, but we are not providing any chartered transportation other than school buses.

We have implemented measures in accordance with the recommendations made by workplace health and safety authorities and the Institut national de santé publique du Québec, which have provided us with suggestions on how to protect our drivers, in particular by providing them with personal protective equipment.

In addition, the maximum number of people we can accommodate in our vehicles is 11 or 12. All children must observe certain physical distancing measures. They must also wash their hands repeatedly in their institutions and in some of our vehicles. So measures have been put in place.

In Quebec, a joint committee has been formed with the tourism industry to align these measures with those of all provinces to make them consistent and keep our customers safe.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Have you assessed how much it will increase your expenses?

[Stéphane Lefebvre]

It is hard to evaluate that right now.

We have had great difficulty obtaining personal protective equipment due to the shortage of these products, whether it be surgical masks, goggles or hand-washing equipment. Another reason this is difficult to assess is that we do not know how long these measures will need to be maintained. If we did, we would be able to estimate how much money we would need to respond. This situation is extraordinary and was not anticipated by organizations when they established their costs of doing business. The costs are therefore difficult to assess, but they are still significant.

If we want to modify vehicles with equipment that is supposed to improve safety—which has not really been proven effective—we need the materials to do it, which is difficult. And there are other significant costs associated with purchasing such equipment.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. D'Angelo, as we have all heard, we're talking about the “new normal” post-COVID-19. How can the federal government support the public transit industry to navigate the new normal in the short term and the long term? I know you have asked for $400 million per month of revenue relief. Can you explain a little bit about how that will help? Where will this funding be allocated and used? What will this new normal look like?

[Marco D'Angelo]

Well, there's a great example in your home community of Laval. It is gradually resuming transit service as the city is reopening, so they welcomed back a lot of customers. The federal government can help by joining with provinces in providing emergency operating relief because, as you're well aware, a tremendous number of exciting capital projects are taking place in the greater Montreal area and in Laval over the next 10 years. We really don't want to put those important federal capital investments in jeopardy. Anything that could be done to help cities and systems like STL in operating would go a long way.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you all.

We'll turn to Mr. Baldinelli and then to Mr. Fraser.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all of the witnesses for appearing today.

My comments are directed more to Mr. Lefebvre and Mr. Kendrick. I was particularly interested in hearing their comments with regard to tourism, mainly Mr. Lefebvre's. COVID-19 has had an immediate and, I dare say, devastating impact on the sector. I want to thank them for sharing their views on sector-specific needs and actions that we need moving forward.

Much has been discussed about the programs that have been created for the sector and the need for more sector-specific programs, but there are unintended consequences of some of the programs that exist already. I was just wondering if I could follow up.

I have a tour company in Niagara Falls, a transportation company that employs over 100 people and utilizes over 50 vehicles in its operations. Its issue is a federal insurance matter dealing with foreign tour operators. It was getting insurance through Export Development Canada at a reasonable cost to help operators underwrite the risk in important foreign markets like Japan, the U.K. and so on. However, as COVID struck, the company was informed by Export Development Canada that this insurance coverage would no longer exist. I'm wondering if Mr. Lefebvre and Mr. Kendrick had also heard or received any questions or concerns from industry representatives on that aspect.

[Stuart Kendrick]

I have not heard of any specific issues in relation to the insurance part of that, but obviously the FITs, the individual travellers from Japan and China and overseas.... I could tell you that a lot of the charter companies that we work with and the sightseeing business that we operate from Toronto to Niagara Falls are severely impacted pretty well. We don't expect to have any operation on that part for the remainder of the 2020 calendar year. Hopefully, as we come out of the COVID issue, we can get some customer confidence, both overseas and within Canada, in using the service.

I'd be happy to follow up with some of the industry people to see if they've seen that, and get back to you on that.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Please. That would be great.

Mr. Lefebvre, have you heard anything from some of your stakeholders?