Finance Committee on May 26th, 2020

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

My last question is for Mr. McKenna, from the Air Transport Association of Canada.

By the way, I miss flying. I might be one of the few people in Canada who misses flying and would go on a plane tomorrow if I thought it was safe.

I want to continue a little with the line of questioning around regaining passenger confidence. In places such as Hong Kong, and maybe Taiwan, as soon as you arrive at an airport, they do testing. You have to wait until the testing is done. Then there's an app that you have to download, and you have to follow up for 14 days as you quarantine.

Would you recommend something such as that for Canada to be looking at, or a version of that, or are you seeing different systems around the world that you might want to draw our attention to, which might actually increase our passenger confidence?

[John McKenna]

Actually, we're looking at that right now, what's being done elsewhere, what the laws allow us to do, because the privacy laws in Canada are very strict.

We also have to be concerned about the different levels of airports in Canada. You can have a system for international airports, and others for regional airports. Regional airports can't necessarily afford to have the equipment that international airports have to have, so we're looking at all these elements.

Of course, international travel is a major concern. That's where a lot of the traffic flow goes. The big-city airports, part of the national airport system, could have a system in place, but I don't know if that's applicable to all the smaller regional airports. There are hundreds of regional airports in this country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, thank you. I know cost is a big factor for Charlottetown and some of the smaller ones as well.

Now we'll turn to Elizabeth May for a couple of questions, and then I have one myself.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Kendrick. I'm picking up on something that Todd Doherty asked.

As you know, because you're the person quoted in all the news stories explaining to British Colombians and Albertans, we are losing Greyhound service. As you know, because you used to run it, there's no service between many of the communities in rural British Columbia and Alberta. If you look right across Canada, Saskatchewan has lost its bus service and the Maritimes have lost their bus service. I'm looking pre-pandemic and wondering whether anyone can make a case that this was a model that was working. As Mr. Doherty suggested, you have monopolies on the lucrative bus lines, particularly the ones in Ontario on Highway 401.

What would work better?

I'm then going to turn to Mr. D'Angelo to ask for more of a public-sector response. However, from the private sector, I really feel that you let us down.

Mr. Kendrick, I'm being honest with you. I'm really angry that you went ahead and cut the services in British Columbia, and you never spoke to the provincial minister, according to her statement. Minister Trevena and the media said Greyhound did not reach out to her first to ask for help before cancelling all those services.

I'll also add to this, that the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls inquiry linked the lack of public transit to why the marginalized, indigenous and vulnerable women were hitchhiking.

In your mind, what would have made that model work?

I'm going to ask the same question to Mr. D'Angelo.

[Stuart Kendrick]

Thanks for the question.

It would be several years and ongoing discussions with every level of government, provincially and federally, about the issues specifically in western Canada on the decline in ridership in rural B.C., Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan. There's lots of documentation about Greyhound. Specifically, I was personally involved in several meetings over the years. I'm not sure why the announcement at the provincial level indicated that there wasn't some information provided in advance. I would be happy to share with you many documents that say just the opposite.

To get to the real issue, if you want to talk specifically of B.C. and most of the provinces in western Canada, the so-called monopoly of historically operating the high-density corridors and maintaining the rural routes, that worked 10 to 15 years ago. It stopped working when you started to see a decline in some of the rural populations. People were not riding the bus. When you rely on the fare box, that's how you pay your bills. You have lots of fixed costs and variable costs.

You've seen some money spent between Prince George and Prince Rupert and money spent on addressing some of the rural transit. It was all about the connectivity. That money at the time and the northern health connectors and some of the interior health connectors was money well spent. But was it enough to allow Greyhound or a competitor who was coming in who had to run those routes to really remain? It all came down to fare box revenue.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

If there's any time, Mr. Chair, I would like to put the same question to Mr. D'Angelo.

Is there another model that could work for our rural routes?

[Marco D'Angelo]

Well, we're not cancelling services. We're providing services and we're losing hundreds of millions of dollars a month doing so. We're an essential public service. We think there can be a role to assist with intercommunity transit, but our municipal systems are on the verge of collapse. We urgently need help now from the federal government.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Thank you, all.

You can only lose hundreds of millions of dollars a month and survive so long.

I spent a fair bit of time this morning having a good conversation with the leadership of Maritime Bus, Coach Atlantic and T3 Transit, which covers all aspects of ground transportation to a certain extent in the Maritimes.

I will admit I'm having a little difficulty figuring out what the solution is in each aspect of your proposals. I know there are jurisdictional issues and there are even legislative issues related to BC Ferries.

I would ask each of you to boil down what you would propose is the simplest of your solutions that the federal government must do. Several have said that the federal government needs to provide leadership. That's probably true. It has to be in conjunction with municipalities and provinces. Could you boil it down?

I will go across the list, starting with you, Mr. McKenna.

[John McKenna]

Thank you, sir.

Actually, our industry needs liquidity. That's all we need. We don't need to get further in debt. We need liquidity. That's what we've been asking the government to provide. That's the answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Mr. McKenna.

Mr. D'Angelo.

[Marco D'Angelo]

Thank you, Chair.

I think you really explained what will happen to the system if the federal government doesn't act. This should not be a partisan or a jurisdictional issue. It's an issue of national importance. We have to find a way to help Canadians who depend on transit coast to coast every day. That's a role for the federal and provincial governments to figure out.

I appreciate saying that one more time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You're saying in this context it's $400 million a month.

[Marco D'Angelo]

The current total is $400 million per month.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Wardrop.

[Dave Wardrop]

I'd like to echo those comments. The only other thing I might add is the importance of interjurisdictional coordination at the provincial level, at the municipal level and at the federal level. I think that's a key piece of this puzzle so that all programs are rolled out effectively and in a coordinated manner across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

Mr. Kendrick.

[Stuart Kendrick]

It's the importance that the federal government really look at all modes of transportation specifically for customers who rely on intercity buses. There's the connectivity into municipal and provincial ferries and airlines as well. It's making sure as we come out of COVID that there are options for travel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

If I could drill down, is it money? Is it liquidity?

[Stuart Kendrick]

Really, for the private sector, it's operating funds to allow that comfort level and consistent service while we come out of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Lefebvre.

[Stéphane Lefebvre]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Our industry depends on the economy of each province in terms of international and local tourism. It is important that we have funds, not loans, to revive our industry. Our industry needs funds to recover what has been lost and to help it prosper and continue to operate, just like the airlines and rail companies, which are also in the tourism business and help Canadians discover their country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

Ms. Paleczny.

[Kelly Paleczny]

I would just again echo what some of the previous speakers have said. The federal government signalling that it is interested in assisting our industry with the issues that we're facing right now will bring the provincial governments to the table and get those very important discussions started.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Buy.