Finance Committee on June 2nd, 2020

[Benoît Fontaine]

The negotiations have been under way for over a year. We participated in a task force. We participated in good faith, the four “feathers,” the four agricultural commodities. For the dairy sector, things were done by way of a fast track. The payment was made directly to the farms.

In the poultry sector, to promote Canadian chicken, we asked for tax credit programs, support programs and promotion programs for national brands, such as the little red chicken logo that almost everyone knows. We're waiting. We haven't received anything, and now COVID-19 is compounding our issues. We have many things to address. There was also NAFTA 2.0, which will provide compensation. We should talk about this.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So the negotiations are at a standstill. We agree on this.

[Benoît Fontaine]

I would say that they're stuck in neutral.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both.

Next is Mr. Julian, who will be followed by Mr. Poilievre if he's on the line. After that it is Ms. Dzerowicz.

Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to continue discussing this issue with Mr. Fontaine.

If we understand correctly, discussions have taken place. However, to date, the chicken farmers of Canada haven't received any support or compensation. They haven't received anything. Can you confirm this?

[Benoît Fontaine]

I can really confirm that the 2,877 chicken farmers in Canada haven't received anything at all.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I find this incredible.

You're dealing with the effects of the pandemic, as you told us, along with the breaches in supply management. We don't understand why you haven't received anything. If the federal government doesn't respond quickly, if nothing is done to address the breach in supply management, if no compensation for marketing is allocated to chicken farmers, and if no support is provided during this pandemic, where will this leave us after the pandemic? In the coming years, what will be the state of Canada's chicken farmers and of supply management for the poultry sector in Canada?

[Benoît Fontaine]

We've been waiting for over a year, as I said. Some farms may be driven out of business as a result of a lack of support and the breach in supply management. There's also the potential free trade agreement with the Mercosur countries, which is looming over us.

I believe that Mr. Laliberté, the executive director, can elaborate on what I'm saying.

Mr. Laliberté, can you continue?

[Michael Laliberté]

Mr. Julian, that's a very good question.

We haven't seen yet the impact of the CPTPP on farmers. That being said, we're already in year three of that trade agreement. We expect that when product comes in, it will have a significant impact on our industry because millions of kilograms will be coming in without farmers' having received proper investment programs to help them alleviate some of these concerns.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Thank you, all.

Is Mr. Poilievre on, or does Mr. Cumming or Mr. Morantz want to take his time?

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I think I'm going to cover it, Wayne, if that's all right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, go ahead Mr. Cumming.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to speak to Mr. Wood.

I heard your testimony about the difficulties that the small businesses are having, and certainly I've been hearing it in spades, hoping for a little quicker reaction in some of the programs. I do appreciate some of the changes that the government has made.

In your testimony, one of the things that caught my ear was the complete shutdown of industry, particularly small businesses. With regard to these kinds of crises, you'd always think that you'd want to learn something from them. Do you think that there should have been a little bit more focus on a sectoral analysis of what should be shut and what shouldn't be shut? Your point with regard to Walmart's being able to operate.... A bunch of other small businesses really feel penalized because they've been shut down, and they think that they could have operated in a safe fashion.

Can you comment on that?

[Michael Wood]

Yes. Thank you so much for asking me to do so.

We've looked at different industries. I know that the government's been looking at the airline industry and how we solve that. The problem is that 98%—this huge number—of people work for small businesses. Yes, there was no playbook. I appreciate very much how we moved forward and how quickly the government has moved forward. However, I think we do.... We can't even look at it today and ask, “Should we have done this?” We have to look at it and say, “We have to continue to do this.” We have to continue looking at it from a sectoral point of view, and say, “Which ones are going to suffer the most?” Right now—granted, I might be slightly biased—it's tourism, events, hospitality and restaurants. Restaurants can't open at 50%. It can't happen. They can't open at 75%. It's not going to work. Your constituents who own these types of businesses will say the same thing.

As it stands right now, we still have to start looking very specifically at industries that are on the verge of absolute collapse.

[James Cumming, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

With regard to those industries, what would you say would be the best tactic to try to give them some level of support until they can open in a full fashion? I think a lot of them are delaying because they say that they can't operate at 50%, so they're going to wait until they can operate in a greater fashion. They won't make it. They won't be here a year from now.

[Michael Wood]

That's absolutely correct, sir. They're not going to be here. Many industries are not going to be here a year from now unless we get more support, more subsidies from the government.

The loans aren't going to cut it. The federal government put millions upon millions of dollars through the Business Development Bank of Canada and EDC. It all came with personal guarantees. I'm not sure how we as business owners are supposed to put ourselves out there even further than we already do on a daily basis.

We need to look at industry specifics. We have to come up with some sort of subsidy. As I said during my opening statement, how long was that $40,000 supposed to last? That's my question. Some businesses could have used that for four months and continued forth. There's a big restaurant here in Ottawa. I know the owner very well. His operating costs are $40,000 a month with no staff. Mine are $50,000 a month with nothing going on.

How much longer are we supposed to be able to do this without proper funding and subsidies?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, we'll have to end it there, James. I'm going to hold us to four minutes on this round, because we have to start the next round shortly.

Mr. Wood, with regard to the BDC, we have the BDC before the committee next week. You said that the BDC is lending money with personal guarantees. Was that before the liquidity was provided to the BDC, or is it happening now as well with the liquidity provided by the federal government?

[Michael Wood]

It's still happening today, to the best of my knowledge.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

If you have any information on that, could you send us a note? I think that would be a question some of our members would want to ask BDC when it's before the committee next week.

[Michael Wood]

I absolutely will.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll turn to Ms. Dzerowicz.

Julie.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much.

Thanks for all the great presentations. I have questions for, literally, all of you, but the chair is very stingy with our time. I will have to go very quickly to a couple of you, if that's okay.

I'm going to start off with Mr. Belliveau, from Doctors Without Borders. A heartfelt thanks to you and your team for the unbelievable work you are doing around the world, particularly at this time. Our government provides around $6 billion in support in terms of international aid. In June 2019 we announced $1.4 billion for women's health and reproductive health services. How is COVID impacting development aid that is currently coming from our country—and maybe not just our country but also around the world—and do we need to make some adjustments?

You have only about 45 seconds before I have to go to my next round. Perhaps you could give us a quick response and any advice.

[Joe Belliveau]

Thanks so much for the question, and the vote of support as well.

I don't think there's an easy, really quick answer to that. The quick response is that we, like everybody else who is responding to needs around the world, are having to make really tough choices right now about what the priorities are.

Even if we look through the lens of what you just described as the feminist approach of the government, we have to recognize that there are vulnerabilities within vulnerabilities around the world. In a lot of the countries where MSF, Doctors Without Borders, is working, there are particular layers of vulnerabilities. In almost all cases where there's a serious medical crisis, women and girls are disproportionately affected.

It's one thing that we always keep in mind as we're responding, and we support the Government of Canada's continuing to do that, as well.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you.

I want to say that we have heard very loud and clear your ask in terms of additional support around COVID and for us to ensure that our funding for a vaccine comes with safeguards to ensure accessibility and affordability for everyone moving forward. I want to make sure that you know we heard that loud and clear.

[Joe Belliveau]

Thank you.