Finance Committee on July 16th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Deputy, we'll give you about half a minute.

[Gina Wilson]

Certainly. I won't take long.

I just wanted to acknowledge my fellow public servants, particularly those at ESDC, because in the midst of the severity of this pandemic, officials have been essentially working around the clock to deliver new emergency supports and payments to Canadians, such as the CERB and many, many other initiatives.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Minister and Ms. Wilson, for your appearance today and for answering questions under somewhat tough circumstances on these timelines. As well, I commend the public servants on the efforts they've been making on the COVID-19 pandemic.

With that, we will suspend for two minutes, and then we'll turn to the next panel, with witnesses from the Department of Canadian Heritage and the Department of Employment and Social Development.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We will reconvene the meeting. I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 41, the second panel today of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. As everyone knows, we are meeting on government spending, WE Charity and the Canada student service grant. Today's meeting is taking place by video conference. Proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

For this panel, we have Ms. Wilson, senior associate deputy minister, diversity and inclusion and youth, from the Department of Canadian Heritage. Ms. Wilson was with us in the first panel. From the Department of Employment and Social Development, we have Rachel Wernick, senior assistant deputy minister, skills and employment branch; and Stephanie Hébert, assistant deputy minister, program operations branch.

Ms. Wilson has an opening statement. Then we will go to questions. Just as a heads-up, we'll start with Mr. Poilievre and then go to Ms. Dzerowicz, Mr. Fortin and Mr. Julian.

Go ahead, Ms. Wilson. The floor is yours.

[Gina Wilson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to share my opening statement time with Rachel Wernick. She can follow me right after.

Kwe. Good day. I'm very pleased to be here and to be able to join you from Algonquin territory today.

I'd like to thank the members of this committee for their continued work during these challenging times.

My remarks will be twofold. First of all, I want to provide some context on how the public service responded to the challenges posed by COVID-19, as it delivered emergency measures and supports for the government. I will then speak about the measures the government has taken to support young Canadians during the COVID-19 pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. Wilson, I believe I'm going to have to say the same thing to you that I said to your minister. Just slow down a little bit to give the translators an opportunity.

[Gina Wilson]

Got it. They also have my remarks.

Mr. Chair, back in March and April, when the severity of the pandemic became obvious, the Government of Canada focused its efforts on providing Canadians with help as quickly as possible. I know that, at Employment and Social Development, the priority was to establish, implement and quickly distribute the Canada emergency response benefit, or the CERB, working with Canada Revenue Agency as well as putting in place other much-needed supports, such as the Canada emergency student benefit. My public service colleagues worked around the clock to support the government's response and to help Canadians when they needed it the most.

At the same time, ESDC was adjusting to new ways of working, with most employees working from home as provinces and territories implemented lockdown measures. Some employees were also facing concerns about their own health and safety and the spread of COVID-19. Despite these challenges, the department was able to deliver quickly and efficiently. However, we cannot ignore the fact that these are unprecedented times for Canadians. They are also unprecedented times for public servants.

Young people are also facing challenges during this pandemic. In response to the government's desire to develop a comprehensive package to help students, there was a general call-out to relevant departments to provide options to enhance existing youth and/or student-related programs, including ESDC. A series of student measures were being pulled together to make up a student package. The government wanted it to include a volunteer service component.

On April 22 the Prime Minister announced a range of measures to assist students during this crisis, including enhancements to the Canada service corps program delivered by ESDC and the new Canada student service grant. Officials were seized with quickly determining how best to design and implement a new program that met the government's objectives and the broad parameters established by the announcement.

Three things were clear to the public service. One, in the COVID-19 context it was important to move forward as quickly as possible. This initiative aimed to support students in contributing safely to their communities over the summer and then recognizing that service in the fall through a financial reward would help them pay for their studies.

Two, it was imperative to find a fast and effective mechanism to engage not-for-profit organizations in all parts of the country, many of whom were struggling at that time to provide service to their communities. They were, and many still are, responding to a great increase in needs and could benefit from volunteers to help out.

Three, the program had to be easily accessible to all students and effectively bring in students from under-represented groups. It had to involve a diversity of students and a diversity of not-for-profit organizations, large and small, from every part of the country.

It was determined that a third party, funded through a contribution agreement, would be the most effective and efficient delivery approach. Contribution agreements are not sole-source service contracts, nor are they procurements. Contributions agreements are regularly used under the transfer payment policy of the government—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

The interpreter is having trouble keeping up with the witness. Could she slow down a bit?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'm not getting the translation for you either, Mr. Fortin. The translator—

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I said the interpreter is having trouble keeping up with the witness. Could the witness slow down a bit, unless it's not important, but if it is important, she needs to speak a bit more slowly.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Slow down a little, Ms. Wilson, and I'm told that your mike may be a little too close to your lips. If you could pull it out a little. These are the joys of the new system.

Ms. Wilson, go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Fortin.

[Gina Wilson]

Indeed, and I will definitely speak more slowly. I'm just about to wrap up anyway.

Under a contribution agreement, the government sets the high-level funding parameters, including the objectives, desired outcomes, eligible expenditures and performance measurement. However, the government does not direct or dictate how the recipient will carry out the project under a contribution agreement. Recipients have the flexibility to design projects that further government policy objectives according to their experience and expertise. The use of contribution agreements enables the government to engage a wide diversity of skills and resources.

Mr. Chair, the public service has been working relentlessly to mitigate the spread of the COVID-19 virus and to protect families' health and financial security.

Thank you. Meegwetch.

I will ask Rachel to share my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. Wernick, the floor is yours.

[Rachel Wernick, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development]

Good afternoon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

And take your time.

[Rachel Wernick]

In order to assist the committee, I will limit my opening remarks to providing the context and rationale behind the department's recommendation to Minister Chagger to enter into a contribution agreement with WE Charity. I would like to underscore that the time frame that I can assist you with is prior to any discussion among ministers of Minister Chagger's recommendation to them. I will steer clear of cabinet confidences.

It is important to note that the Canada student service grant was embedded in an ongoing discussion of a broad package of potential measures to help students and youth deal with the impacts of the pandemic. It was never going to be the only measure.

On April 8, changes to the Canada summer jobs program were announced. Interactions, and the potential for overlap with the design and delivery of existing programs and new emergency measures, had to be worked out. The package came together as policy in the Prime Minister's announcement of April 22.

I was asked in mid-April by my associate deputy minister at ESDC and a Department of Finance official to provide information, analysis and assessment of potential options for including service opportunities in the student package. The finance official indicated that the Prime Minister would announce the student package in the coming days and cited Saturday, April 18 as the likely date. For these discussions with Department of Finance officials, I drew on work that my team had undertaken in March to assess the potential to enhance programming offered under the Canada service corps.

On April 22, the Prime Minister announced at his daily news conference a comprehensive package of support of nearly $9 billion for post-secondary students and recent graduates. I learned the final contents of the package from the announcement.

This package included two items related to youth service.

One was additional investments in the Canada service corps program to increase the number of micro-grants available to youth from 1,800 to 15,000 and to provide stipends to participants.

The second item was the new Canada student service grant, or CSSG. The new CSSG program would provide up to $5,000 to students in reward for service for their education in the fall.

After the announcement, I asked my Department of Finance colleagues if they could help us flesh out the details. They told me that the initiative needed to be launched by mid-May and that the program parameters focused on two key elements: a web-based digital platform that would allow students to apply for the CSSG program and be matched with volunteering opportunities in their community and track their hours completed, and a grant of up to $5,000 for volunteer hours completed.

There were several objectives of the initiative. The first was to facilitate the involvement of students in contributing to the COVID-19 response in their communities through volunteering over the summer. The second was to provide a financial award to recognize this contribution to help students cover the costs of their studies in the fall, as well as to incentivize students to volunteer. The third was to provide students with skills and experience that would help them in pursuing their careers.

Members of my team and I met with members of Minister Chagger’s staff and with officials at central agencies to further understand the desired outcomes of the initiative. It became quickly evident that there was high ambition not only for the speed of implementation, in roughly three weeks, but also for the scope and scale of the initiative. The minister’s staff indicated that volunteering opportunities needed to be available in every province and territory, and in large and small urban and rural communities.

The minister’s staff also communicated to the team that it was imperative to ensure that youth from a wide diversity of backgrounds would be encouraged and be able to participate, including racialized, indigenous, LGBTQ2 youth, and youth with disabilities. There was a long list of design and implementation considerations that the team needed to analyze in pulling together advice on how to implement this ambitious vision within three weeks.

First and foremost was the pandemic context, with health and safety top of mind. There were significant concerns about community spread, as youth had been identified as a high-risk demographic for spreading the virus. Public health advisories were being updated daily on requirements for physical distancing. Keeping students and communities safe was the top priority for the team.

The pandemic was also impacting the capacity of the department to provide any form of direct delivery. In late April, the department, including its delivery arm, Service Canada, was completely consumed with other emergency measures. Officials were working around the clock to get emergency payments out to Canadians.

The next significant consideration was the capacity of the not-for-profit sector organizations that were under stress and stretched to deliver on their mandates. Although volunteers can help, they need orientation and oversight, and digital supports to be able to contribute in a safe, physical distancing context, all of which require time, effort and resources for the organization hosting the volunteers.

Interaction between recently announced emergency supports and payments was another key consideration. Given that students could be receiving the Canada emergency response benefit or the Canada emergency student benefit, and that some not-for-profit organizations could be eligible for the Canada emergency wage subsidy, the team needed to determine eligibility that would be fair and equitable without creating disincentives for students to undertake paid employment.

In my role, I had also been working on the proposal to increase the number of jobs available to youth and introduce new flexibilities for employers under the Canada summer jobs program.

This analysis was also happening in a context where public and media attention was raising concerns about CERB payments and issues of risk mitigation to ensure that no one would get the payment who should not. The team had to ensure that the design maximized the ability for strong oversight and due diligence.

Our experience with the Canada service corps program had taught us many things about the key ingredients for a successful youth service initiative. First, to engage in service the majority of youth—in particular, youth who are under-represented and who are from groups facing barriers—require additional supports ranging from orientation to mentoring to wraparound supports.

Secondly, the biggest influencers of youth are other youth. The success of the initiative required a strong start, whereby a large number of meaningful opportunities would be available immediately to grab youths' interest, so they would spread the word with their friends. Youth do not come to government websites, no matter how well we build them. There was a need for active outreach to find youth where they were. Promotion and communications tailored to a younger audience and that would reach them through all social media platforms were essential.

The purpose was to create a digital platform that allowed for registration of students and not-for-profit organizations, including directly inputting information, logging and tracking of hours, and matching of students with opportunities.

This required analysis of what technological capability would be required, how it would meet all government requirements for bilingualism, accessibility and protection of personal information, and how to ensure the system [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Rhéal Fortin, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Mr. Chair, I don't know whether I'm the only one—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I've lost you....

[Rachel Wernick]

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[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Sorry, Ms. Wernick. We lost you for a moment.

Go ahead.

[Rachel Wernick]

[Technical difficulty—Editor]. Am I...? [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We are not picking you up for some reason. How close are you to the end of your remarks?

Madam Clerk, can we get a technician to get in touch with Ms. Wernick. We're not picking her up.

[The Clerk]

I'm working on it right now. Someone's reaching out to her immediately, and hopefully we can get this sorted out as soon as possible.

It's entirely up to you if you'd like to suspend the meeting in the meantime.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Let's suspend for two minutes in case people want to get a glass of water or something. We'll suspend for two minutes and then come back.

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We will reconvene the meeting and see where we're at.

Ms. Wernick, if you could wrap up pretty quickly, it would be helpful.

Go ahead. The floor is yours.