Evidence of meeting #41 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was volunteer.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gina Wilson  Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, Department of Canadian Heritage
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Caroline Bosc
Rachel Wernick  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Stephanie Hébert  Assistant Deputy Minister, Program Operations Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Paula Speevak  President and Chief Executive Officer, Volunteer Canada

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

That's okay. I used to be, in the good old days.

Go ahead.

4:40 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

As I mentioned in my statement, in the context of working very quickly to input into a student announcement that was going to happen in a few days, we were exploring very quickly potential options and thinking about who could potentially support and help the government in that space. As I mentioned, in the context of developing a student package and assessing options, my recollection is that WE Charity was one of the options that came up in discussions, given their experience as the largest youth-serving organization in Canada.

I called WE Charity on April 19 to seek some input on the program concept. Then, as I mentioned in my statement, I learned the details of what the government wanted for a Canada student service grant through the Prime Minister's announcement. Following that announcement, I received by email a proposal from WE Charity. This is not the same thing as saying what went to cabinet. This is saying that a third party, hearing about the announcement, submitted a proposal.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay. That clarifies it for me.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

It's not clear, though, Mr. Chair—

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Basically, Ms. Wernick approached WE on April 19. On April 22 she got an email from Craig Kielburger.

I'll give you another minute or so, Mr. Poilievre, because this is important.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

To be clear, you contacted WE on the 19th, and then Mr. Kielburger came back to you with a proposal on the 22nd. Is that the order?

4:40 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

Yes, Mr. Chair.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

Had he contacted you prior to the 19th?

4:40 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

No. As I mentioned, I contacted him on the 19th.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

You contacted him on the 19th—

4:40 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

That is correct.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

—to ask him for that, so he had knowledge that this program was going to be announced by the Prime Minister before the public did.

4:40 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

I contacted him on the broad parameters and scope of what we were talking about, how to engage youth to get involved in service and issues around quick implementation.

My recollection of the conversation with Mr. Kielburger on the broad concepts was that he raised lots of expertise and concerns related to youth and engaging youth, and that not-for-profits were struggling, in the COVID context, and that it would be very challenging to keep youth safe, so it would require virtual placements. He gave some expertise, as one of the largest youth service organizations, on the concept.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I am going to move on, but I'll give you time to think about where we are here too, Pierre. Maybe you'll have to come back in a little later.

I'll go to Ms. Dzerowicz, and then on to Mr. Fortin.

July 16th, 2020 / 4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I want to say a huge thanks to Ms. Wilson, and to you, Ms. Wernick, for your great presentation. You were painstaking in explaining to us the challenge that was before you and how little time you had. I'm going to interpret what you've said over the last minute or so, because I want to make sure I understand it clearly.

My understanding from what you've indicated is that there was a student package that was about to be announced on April 22. There was going to be a volunteer or student service component to it, so in advance, there was some discussion about who could be some different options and there was an exploratory phone call made to Mr. Kielburger at WE Charity. It was an exploratory phone call. Then, unsolicited, Mr. Kielburger ended up submitting a proposal to the government on the 22nd when the announcement was made. Do I have that correct?

4:45 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

That is correct.

4:45 p.m.

Senior Associate Deputy Minister, Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, Department of Canadian Heritage

Gina Wilson

I'm just going to add to that. Discussions prior to a public announcement is a regular course of activity. There's nothing strange about it. I've seen it all the time.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

I think that was an important addition. Thank you, Ms. Wilson.

It's also important to understand that we were in mid-April, one month after the lockdown. We were going at a very fast pace, doing our very best to provide enormous amounts of supports to Canadians, and the group we were focusing on was youth.

Ms. Wernick, to continue with this, after April 22—and I think you mentioned this, but I want this to be very clear—did you consider other organizations? Did you look internally before making your recommendation that WE was the only one, based on all of the objectives and parameters you have laid out?

4:45 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

Yes, we did consider other organizations.

First, we considered our Canada service corps program partners. My team had been in discussions with them to explore the potential expansion of the program. They had indicated that they were struggling to deliver their existing contribution program in the COVID context. It's important to recall that this programming under the Canada service corps brings groups of youth together and often involves travelling. It was April during the pandemic.

Then we assessed the ability of other organizations that are focused on volunteering, such as Volunteer Canada. In our assessment, we were unable to identify a single organization that adequately met the need for broad geographic reach, technological capacity and experience working with youth, particularly youth from underserved communities.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

I also heard from you very clearly that there was a great desire to ensure that we would have a program out by mid-May; I think that was the initial hope. It was to be done in a very short period of time. I think that's appreciated, because most university students and youth were on university break and it would have provided them with an opportunity and time to volunteer.

Can I ask a quick question? WE had provided an unsolicited submission to you, Ms. Wernick. Were there any other groups that provided unsolicited proposals as well, once the announcement was made?

4:45 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Okay.

Then with my next question, I want to clear something up, because I think we were talking about $19.5 million that was being paid to WE, and then we went to $43.5 million. Could you maybe clarify this for us a bit?

My understanding is that the whole program was for up to $912 million and that it anticipated that up to 100,000 students would participate. I think the original $19.5 million was for the first 20,000 placements. If there were to be a next tranche of placements, then it would be the next amount, so it would go up to the $43.5 million. Could you just clarify that? I just want to make sure that it's clear to everyone.

4:50 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

Rachel Wernick

Mr. Chair, that is very clear. I think the funding envelope put against it, of $912 million, reflects the government's ambition to reach as many students as possible and to provide financial rewards to as many as possible. The vast majority of the funding for this was for the grant payments to students and recent grads.

As for the funding for programming supports and delivery and supports for not-for-profits, that was linked to the number of placements. You've described it correctly.

This is a common practice in contribution agreements. Additional payments would not be made until there was proof of uptake and the desired results were being achieved.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON

Then I have just one more question on the contribution agreement, just for the layperson, particularly given the way the opposition presents it. We went to a contribution agreement because of the expediency of this. However, I don't want to give the public the impression that there was no oversight, no performance measurements and no accountability for the dollars.

If you can, Ms. Wernick, could you just to talk to that because I don't want people to feel that we didn't go to service agreements? A service agreement would have to go to an RFP, which would have taken a lot of time. We understand why that option was off the table and we stayed with a contribution agreement.

I want to give confidence to Canadians that there was oversight, there were performance measurements, and what those elements in place were.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

If you can, make that a fairly tight answer, Ms. Wernick.